Barack Obama was one of 29 U.S. Senators who opposed cloture on a key Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) vote today. The specific issue: whether to extend immunity to telecommunications companies that assisted the government in terrorist surveillance. John McCain voted in favor of cloture and for immunity along with all other Republicans (Lindsey Graham was absent), the increasingly sensible Dianne Feinstein (she voted to confirm Attorney General Michael Mukasey and Fifth Circuit Judge Leslie Southwick despite the protestations of the civil rights lobby), and a number of Red (e.g. Bayh, Johnson, McCaskill, Webb) and Blue (e.g. Mikulski, Casey) state Democrats. But not Obama. Doesn’t this say something about his noncentrist views on national security? To whom was he “reaching out” on this vote and what new type of politics was he practicing? Or was he voting with the most extreme elements of his party? And what precisely is the rationale for denying immunity to companies which in good faith aided in national security endeavors? This might be a fruitful line of inquiry for the soon to be Republican nominee. (Oh, and Hillary Clinton? She did not vote.)
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I am DONE
it Israel does not get Gilad SHalit back…at the least
I AM DONE
I am DONE
it Israel does not get Gilad SHalit back…at the least
I AM DONE
Hopefully you’re wrong Noah.
Israel wasn’t prepared for the tremendous success they had in the battlefield.
Initially they wanted to stop the rocket fire but they were so successful they are now in a position to permanently damage Hamas.
Unless they decided that chaos (after Hamas is routed) is worse than the present.
But they have no choice but to follow through or every Israeli death was in vain.
“I cannot recall any military power in human history prepared to make so many concessions to an enemy it has routed on the battlefield, or that suspends a military campaign in the midst of its success, rescuing a mortal and implacable enemy from defeat and humiliation.”
How about the US in Vietnam? How about the French in Algeria? Sometimes victory comes at too high a price for civilized people.
Which is all why they need to elect Netanyahu fast, very fast. He is calling for the immobilzation of Hamas. And hopefully the defanging of Iran.
Any chance this has anything to do with the upcoming inauguration? The only positive I can see from this cease-fire, if it in fact goes forward, is that Obama can’t use Operation Cast Lead an immediate showcase of his “tough stance” on the region.
Some wishful thinking: If Israel actually ends this war, and I think they should expel Hamas completely, then perhaps what Israel will gain is strikes on Iran’s nuclear facility. Suppose Israel was given this choice by the U.S.: Continue the war but the U.S. will not help Israel strike Iran (which we’ve already heard happened a year ago); or, stop fighting and the U.S. will help in a strike.
If that choice were true, and it’s pure speculation on my part, then I think striking Iran is preferred. An Iranian nuclear power is too awful to allow and while Hamas is horrible, Iran’s current leadership with nuclear bombs is worse.
Bush won’t give any ok to military strikes now and Obama certainly won’t give Israel the green light without several decades of diplomatic efforts first.
there is NO WAY this is going to extend into obamas presdiency. that is the whole point. this is the last hurrah
This has nothing to do with Obama or Bush, but everything with the criminal gang that now is a Government of Israel. If Jews elect the same gang again, they will deserve their fate even more than Arabs deserve their fate for electing Hamas.
“How about the US in Vietnam? How about the French in Algeria? Sometimes victory comes at too high a price for civilized people.”
Or defeat is forced upon civilized nations by people who claim to be “progressive” and allow the world to run amok among the uncivilized.
If you have been reading the Jerusalem Post and YNET, the Israeli military thinks now is a good time to end the fighting. It is easy for bloggers to pontificate about what Israel should do and what its soldiers should do, but maybe you should listen to the soldiers and generals and politicians. What would it mean to wipe out Hamas, exactly? Kill all 21,000 hardcore memebrs? The Israelis just blew up the #3 guy in Hamas today. Nice coup de gras. My guess is that the Israelis don’t wnat to get bogged down in a military occupation of Gaza. That would be like Lebanon I, which was a disaster. Also, for all the handwringing, the fact is that the Israelis had “international law” (whatever that is excatly) on its side in responding to the missiles being shot at it. That was a huge justification for the war and one that the Euros and the UN really could not argue against. If Hamas breaks the truce, then this happens all over again. There are probably a bunch of saying from Sun Tzu that justify the Israeli military’s decsion to consolidate its gains now. Also, why should anymore brave Israeli soldiers die when the “world” will eventually force the outcome that is coming together on its own now?
“It is incredible what political simpletons Jews are. They shut their eyes to one of the most elementary rules of life, that you must not “meet halfway” those who do not want to meet you.”
–Ze’ev Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall November 4, 1923
True then, still true now
I wonder what will happen when the rockets start up again?
Are we going to be back in the game where the Palestinians just can’t control all their terrorists and so southern Israel just has to ‘take it’?
14- worse things have happened to better people
Hamas hasn’t quit firing rockets even now.
Please, don’t even print such things. I sincerely hope you are wrong.
Israel must/will get more concessions than you are willing to speculate about.
Getting Gilad back is a must.
Having the Philadelphi crossings monitored by acceptable parties is also a must.
At the very least.
If I was the IDF, I would be very busy right now.
World opinion is stacked against Israel, so what do they have to lose by achieving the total destruction of hamas.
An attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities right now, would catch the mullahs off guard.
I fantasize about Bush and Obama agreeing on this tactic and doing it now, when the world would least expect it.
Israel did not conquer Egypt, Jordan or Syria in 1967, yet her supporters keep expecting her to do to her enemies what the Allies did to the Axis in WW2. This was a military victory at low cost that may result in an acceptable if temporary political arrangement allowing Israel to deal with Hezbollah or even Iran if and when needed. Napoleon won his battles by butting his adversaries apart one at a time so they could not help each other and he could bring superior force to bear against each. This is just one more skirmish in a thousand year war. Stop dreaming of finality.
Since the Arabs ‘win’ all their wars with Israel, why does Israel even bother to fight? Might as well stay home.
Let’s take this within proportion. Hamas is a barbaric, neanderthal enemy Israel could have destroyed without all the expensive fireworks in a very short time.
Problem is, Israel never intended to destroy the enemy. Only to “deter”. Israel is so scared of the word “occupation”, it doesn’t want to “occupy” anymore, and thus it will always lose, for when you are in war, if you don’t occupy – you’ll eventually be occupied.
Jews have to create a new state, a rogue state that will not be afraid of World opinion. Israel is done, stick a fork in it.
I agree, Hamas is barbaric. Israel is every last bit as barbaric. They are mirror images of each other: unthinking, blood-sucking, genocidal freaks bent on nothing but death. Nice country you’ve become, Israel. Look in the damn mirror.
According to John Batchelor of the John Batchelor show, Olivier Guitta of the Middle East Times and Aaron Klein at world Net Daily the war is escalating. They are all quacks if you ask me.
Gotta go read some Jabotinsky. It’s been 30 years since I last read him. Thanks, MIke.
Lester – you’re a putz, you know that?
John Hartland
missing the point as usual
but describing arabs as “unthinking, blood-sucking, genocidal freaks bent on nothing but death”, is an amazingly accurate description
There is no reason to stop until Hamas is well and truly destroyed. At least 25 missiles including several Grads launched from Gaza today into Israel with multiple casualties, including children. As long as ONE missile is fired, the war must not end. As long as Shalit is captive, no stopping.
Victory over the enemy is mandatory, and close at hand, unless Israeli leadership loses its nerve and caves. Then the next round will begin. There is never a satisfactory substitute for victory.
There is NO reason to stop until the job is done and Hamas is crushed out of existence. Have no illusions. They are not interested in peace. They want martyrdom. The IDF should give it to them.
Even if one argues that Israel is right not to seek Hamas’ complete destruction, the decision- if the reports are true- to end the war when Hamas is still firing missiles, to end the blockade, to leave Shalit in capitivity, etc. is a terrible decision.
this can’t be true. Israel must finish the job. they’re so close! 80 rockets a day at the beginning, 14 rockets today. they must continue until there are zero rockets, and every known Hamas militant is dead. world opinion is so set against them, they might as well say the hell with it and carry on…
Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.
It’s difficult to support Israel, the utter idiocy and spinelessness of it’s political leadership is just too frustrating. Isn’t it true that Olmert would basically be in jail if he didn’t have immunity? And yet no way can be found to remove or impeach the fool. Israel better wake up. The Hamas cockroaches need to be squashed, they can not be reasoned with or bought off.
Do you think maybe the Olmert govt is cooling it so when the elections take place Livni is more likely to be elected? As long as the war continues Bibi looks really good.
but describing arabs as “unthinking, blood-sucking, genocidal freaks bent on nothing but death”, is an amazingly accurate description
Of Israeli, the Israelis, and American fellow traveling Bund neocon traitors, too. You are no different than they are. You bathe in blood, and revel in death.
John Hartland
as you babble incoherent hatred
There is a consensus among Israelis that the missile shield will work and is wanted. This is just buying time. The missile shield won’t be ready for at least another year. Israel is buying time.
It’s a terrible shame about Mr. Shalit. Israel really should, and could, demand his return. It seems all the top leadership cannot find a way to pry him loose, if he still lives. Perhaps they know, via intelligence, that he is dead or devastatingly harmed. Either of those would only benefit Mr. Netanyahu, and the current crop of liberal leaders don’t want that. Therefore, Mr. Shalit remains abandoned by them.
That’s only a surmise, and a sad one.
Hamas is dangerous, but they’re not the real foe. Iran is. Everything revolves around the eventual confrontation between Iran – and its nuclear annihiliation program – and Israel. Keeping Hamas and Hezbollah somewhat defanged, buying time, is what appears to be happening now.
“Imposed armistices…unless followed by negotiated peace accords, artificially freeze conflict and perpetuate a state of war indefinitely by SHIELDING THE WEAKER SIDE FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OFREFUSING TO MAKE CONCESSIONS FOR PEACE.”
“Today, cease-fires and armistices are imposed on lesser powers by multilateral agreement…for essentially disinterested andindeed friviolous motives, such as television audiences’ revulsion at harrowing scenes of war. But this, perversely, can systematically prevent the transformation of war into peace.” (Richard Luttwak, “Give war a chance”)
I’m beginning to understand this guy.
If the “Word Community (TM)” was shocked at the body count from this operation, they’d better get ready for a 10-fold increase within 2-3 months after Netanyahu gets elected, which he surely will now. Livni or Barak might have had a chance following a so-so truce involving assurances about this and that (we all have to be realisitic about what can be done right now, after all). However, the real heart of the matter is the Shalit, the kidnapped IDF soldier.
If the rumours are true, and Shalit’s immediate release (i.e. within days, if not hours) is not Number 1 on the list of non-negotiable conditions to the truce, then Bibi is in like Fynn.
Israelis are probably among the most realistic poeple on the planet right now. However, the fact that thier military absolutely crushed Hamas, killed top leaders, and (so far, God willing) prevented few casualties on thier side cannot result in thier mortal enemy to release Shalit will burn hot as fire in the electorate and will sweep Bibi into power. I’m no fan of Bibi, and if the Arab states were/are worried about the Arab street, they should be more worried about the Jewish street.
“Keeping Hamas and Hezbollah somewhat defanged, buying time, is what appears to be happening now”
But that is the fatal mistake Israel is making isn’t it? Who needs the time? Not Israel, it’s Iran! Following through with the effective (if not complete) destruction of Hamas can still be done while completing Iron Dome some other concept…the two are not mutually exclusive.
Israel is making a huge mistake, and it, God forbid, confrontation with Iran happens, history will record the Truce of Gaza (January 2009) as the starting point for the blood that will be spilled
Mr. Pollack
Maybe Israel shouldn’t start unwinnable wars as it did in 1982, 2006 and 2008. It is amazing how little has been learned over a period of several decades. Always more bombs, but no fresh thinking. The same tired approach and the unrealistic hope that the other side will start acting civilized.
Something is brewing. This massive lashing out in 2006 and 2008, with little achieved, betrays a loss of confidence, a moral decline even, a sign that all is not well internally. It looks like doing something for the sake of doing something, not a strategy for achieving a goal.
Come to think of it, what is the goal? Stopping the rocket attacks? That is necessary but it can’t be the first goal. The first goal has to be pacification of the Palestinian population and empowerment of the Palestinian individual to improve his life. Once you get that, the rockets will miraculously stop. But if you destroy infrastructure and kill innocents, you are really moving temporarily in the opposite direction.
Israel needs to learn that if you want a hostage back, the last thing you do is let the kidnappers how much you want him back. I know it is something deeply rooted in the Israeli psyche that they need to strain every resource to retrieve captured soldiers and civilians, but in the long run, this plays into the hands of organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah, because it allows them to exert psychological blackmail over the entire nation. A simple declaration of policy that Israel will hold organizations responsible, followed by a deadline for the return of the hostage, followed by punitive action. Certainly, in many, maybe even most, situations, the captured Israeli will be killed by his captors, but in the long run, devaluing the leverage of kidnapping and increasing the adverse consequences will pay great dividends.
I notice that despite the “failure” of Israel’s war against Hezbollah, the Lebanese border has been quiet, no rockets have been raining down on northern Israeli towns, and Hezbollah no longer has the tacit support of the Lebanese population along the israeli border. I think Israel could live through a similar “failure” against Hamas in Gaza.
“Maybe Israel shouldn’t start unwinnable wars as it did in 1982, 2006 and 2008.”
Actually, all those wars were winnable, but the United States and other outside countries simply refuse to allow Israel to finish the job. I have said many times the only reason there is a Middle East crisis is the refusal of the rest of the world to let the Arabs suffer the full consequences of their folly. This goes all the way back to 1956, when Eisenhower would not let the British, French and Israelis polish off Nasser, thereby demonstrating that Arab nationalists could run roughshod over international agreements with impunity. Now, during the Cold War, there was at least the excuse that we did not want to be dragged into a superpower confrontation through the actions of U.S. and Soviet proxies, but what is the excuse today?
Edward Luttwak was prescient in his 1999 article, “Give War a Chance”, when he pointed out that humanitarian efforts to halt conflicts before their culminating point merely allows wounds to fester that would best be cauterized. But that article only goes back to his earlier book, “On the Meaning of Victory”, the main premise of which is the West no longer understand what it means to win.
Amen to that, Stuart.
Unfortunately the reality is, unless Hamas is completely destroyed they will continue to destabalise the entire region.
Although Id bet Hamas wasnt prepared for Israel going as mad dog as they did. Just like Saddam, Hamas appears to have massively under estimated not only Israels response BUT also Israels resolved in the face of Western appeasement.
Mailman
the only reason americans care about this is because of the blowback.
if this was two random countries fighting we we would not care.
If israel used it’s own money to buy it’s own weapons there would be no protests anywhere.