Tim Russert just tossed Obama an unbelievable softball to allow him to offer the opinion that he doesn’t like NAFTA, he didn’t like NAFTA, he never liked NAFTA, NAFTA is bad, even people who like NAFTA who endorsed him said he hated NAFTA. Just in case you don’t understand this, Barack Obama doesn’t like NAFTA, and Tim Russert wants you to know it too.
Contentions
Tim Russert: Senator Obama, May I Help Get You Elected?
John Podhoretz
| @jpodhoretz
02.26.2008 - 9:30 PM
02.26.2008 - 9:30 PM
“Many excuse Chinese officials, arguing they cannot control all the country’s factories, especially now that their managers are expected to run profitable operations.”
I suppose that among these many are the same people who fully expect the much more liberal, open United States to control the foreign sales activities of OUR businesses — and who advocate the use of economic sanctions on the (demonstrably false) premise that they can be made iron-clad, and thereby force a recalcitrant nation to rethink its intentions.
Ah, to be a die-hard leftist, and never have to say of one’s own assertions, “That doesn’t make sense.”
Meanwhile, I imagine you’ll get the usual ration of grief for this piece, Gordon. But it’s spot-on. Of course China is selling Iran materials for use in Iran’s missile program. Of course we should impose meaningful penalties on China for doing that.
J.E. Dyer, yes, the pattern of Chinese sales to Iran establish the responsibility of the regime. One sale can be the result of a freelancing individual. A dozen sales shows Beijing’s involvement.
Thanks.
gordon barfs out another salvo against his great enemy: capitalism
lester, capitalism is my enemy?
all of your columns are about how we need more embargoes. when goods don’t cross borders armies soon will.
stop it with the embargo advocacy. at least the neo clowns on this site admit they want to nuke the whole world mercilessly and dress all 300 million us citizens in army fatigues indefinately.
Gordi,
Why are you so worried about the small stuff. The big stuff are the billions given to Israel every year which have been used ILLEGALLY. And that is causing a lot of instability in the world.
On a more general note, I read through Michael Moore’s Stupid White Men. Paraphasing, “I read the newspaper where one scientist claimed he was the father of the hydrogen bomb and another guy disputed that claiming that he himself was the father of the hydrogen bomb. I can bet you that these are two white men.” And, “history has shown that weapons of greatest destruction come from the mind of white men. History’s most destructive war were started by white men.”
You get the gist of the book. But is he right? How old are you? In my 50 years of experience I think he comes close to the truth. White people used black slaves to build up the south. White people used the Chinese to build the Transcontinental railroad and then barred them from normal society when the railroad was finished. Have you read any of these histories?
Have you read about firebombing Chinese shops and then clubbing them to death as they come out? Today’s society is much better but don’t you think that some of this streak of violence is still with Americans in their foreign policy?
America states quite clearly that we will support Israel no matter what. Iran states clearly that they want peace. In relationship with other countries they want fairness. That is what they say and whether you believe them or not, they have not massively intervened in Gaza or Lebanon. So through their words and actions one can easily see who the aggressive one is and who is actually the one on defense.
I hear statements like this ” If the Palestinians give up arms there will be peace. If Israel gives up arms there will be genocide.” Well, the West Bank has given up on fighting Israel, what do they get? New and expanding settlements. In Gaza, they stopped firing rockets for 6 months expecting in return a lifting of the blockade so that they can get food and medicine. No, Israel gave NOTHING in return, but was planning a big invasion and Hamas was stupid enough to be baited into firing their toy rockets.
This situation reminds me of Moore’s thesis of white men thinking up evil thing to do to poor natives. So what is happening is that the natives are only defending themselves. Of course the US and Israel will not allow them that right, but categorizing them as terrorists. But are the native as bad as well. I have read some of Yassar Arafat’s interviews. NO there will be no genocide if the Arabs somehow out gun the Jews. The country will change names, repeal this Law of Return for Jews Only, and SOME of the homes taken from the Arabs will be returned. Otherwise the Jews can stay, except for the really bad ones and they will be expelled to where they come from.
The world is really not very complicated when one sees the big picture. For those who don’t see the big picture, they see defenders as terrorists, terrorists as heroes, torture as good and kindness as weakness.
lester, one can be in favor of capitalism and still favor embargoes.
And trading with Iran will not prevent war. The way to prevent war is to embargo Iran so tight that virtually nothing goes in or leaves. I suspect that, because commerce with Iran is in fact continuing, we will see conflict soon because Iran will then get the bomb and feel empowered to accomplish its expanionist aims. Commerce with Iran, in short, is giving the regime the capability to cause trouble in the Middle East.
that IS capitalism. it gives people the ability to cause trouble or not, it gives them freewill. you have to take the rough with the smooth.
Big Picture, there are stupid white men, stupid black men, and stupid yellow ones. And there are also stupid women as well.
And talking about stupid white guys, what color is Moore?
lester, we can reasonably say that certain nations should not be permitted to participate in global commerce. That, in my book, is better than going to war.
Quote: “Big Picture, there are stupid white men, stupid black men, and stupid yellow ones. And there are also stupid women as well.
And talking about stupid white guys, what color is Moore?”
Response: You are just giving a common sense comment, so what’s your point??? BTW, Moore is a white dude.
Yet, you seem to ignore the important points that I ask. For example, why are you so worried about some Chinese parts going to Iran but refuses to talk about billions of arms going to Israel from US which are being ILLEGIALLY used against civilians????
Why do you think that Muslims and China are so dangerous when one has homemade weapons, and the other has no troops outside its borders ??? America, I believe has bases in over 100 countries.
Are you really sincere in your beliefs or are you just trying to get sensation out of these wacky ideas? Tell me.
Big Picture, civilians are being killed because Hamas is using their neighborhoods to launch attacks. Blame Hamas if you want to assign responsibility.
China is dangerous, as my many postings in this forum indicate. A nation need not station troops outside its borders to threaten the international system.
Even if the United States had bases in 100 countries, what’s your point?
Quote: “Big Picture, civilians are being killed because Hamas is using their neighborhoods to launch attacks. Blame Hamas if you want to assign responsibility.”
Often, Palestinians will fire a weapon and then run for cover. The IDF then comes in and accuse the house occupants of supporting the gunman when they have no idea of what happened. Then the IDF gives the people 5 minutes to leave before the bulldozers go to work. Thousands of houses have been demolished with many casualties when the people refuse to leave.
After leaving Gaza, the IDF will just bomb a place to pieces when they think a gunman was near there.
The IDF practices terrorism, pure and simple.
After 60 years of in your face history you still have not figure out that Israel is the terrorist nation.
You buy totally the idea that the Palestinians militants hide behind civilians and gives cover to the IDF for civilian casualties. Yet, I have never heard of any militants pushing civilians ahead of them as cover. On the other hand, the IDF has on occasions pushed civilians ahead of them. Look it up on the net.
So what do you want the fighters do? Fire in an open field and get killed instantly by a drone?
By your logic, is the IDF not cowardly by hiding behind armor vehicles?
Quote: “China is dangerous, as my many postings in this forum indicate. A nation need not station troops outside its borders to threaten the international system.
Even if the United States had bases in 100 countries, what’s your point?”
What??? A totally confined country that says that it will never be the first to use nuclear weapons and want peaceful development and has no military reach is dangerous but the US which gives billions of deadly weapons to Israel as well as to dozens of its ‘friends’ and hangs the threat of nuclear annihilation over the world is just a mild poodle???
So I ask again but you refuse to answer: Do you really sincerely believe in your ideas or are you just using them for promotion purposes???
Big Picture, yes, I really believe every single word I write.
Gordi,
Has the thought that you may have been brainwashed by the media, society, the Zionists, and yourself, ever come across your mind???
I am betting it has because you seemed to be afraid to answer my points on human shields, as an example. I get no detail replies from you.
Big Picture, please cite sources for your human-shield contention. Thanks in advance.
Certainly,
Here’s a link. The IDF do it all the time. Hamas does not do is but is accused of ‘hiding behind civilians’ which means they fire behind buildings (which all soldiers do) and the building is blown up.
http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/Timeline_of_Events.asp
I don’t see how you can reasonably argue CHINA, who virtually owns us, should face embargos for engaging in trade with people, namely Iran, who are far less offensive than saudi arabia and other of our trading partners.
“civilians are being killed because Hamas is using their neighborhoods to launch attacks. Blame Hamas if you want to assign responsibility.”
do you seriously believe that gordon? that this thing has absolutely no context to it. israel didn’t drive the palestinains off the land and hasn’t gradually pushed them out? that this is just one group of people bombing another group and another retaliating?
and you consider yourself some kind of foreign policy guy? with that superficial understanding of the issue?
To Lester,
Gordi is going through emotional turmoil getting facts contrary to his beliefs. Give him time to respond.
The US has reduced its relationship to Iran to the level of punitive sanctions. One result of this is, that the US has no positive or negative leverage to stop Iran from importing the goods originally exported by the US and other sanctions-compliant states from unsavory regimes worse than Beijing’s.
I agree the US has to take a stand against the export of these goods. But that requires multilateral leadership to bring all possible exporters into unison, not isolating Iran. Cutting ties with Iran o\only as the prime policy only creates more incentives for Beijing to capitalize.
Big Picture, thanks for the link on human shields. I will have to study this.
lester, China does not own us. This is a fallacy, as I have discussed many times in this forum.
lester, the issue as to who should own and control the land goes back centuries, but your assumption that it belongs to the Palestinians needs some explanation. You will have to deal with the U.N.’s creation of Israel and subsequent Arab attempts to destroy that country before you can convince me.
Baltimoron, doesn’t working with exporters necessarily imply isolating Iran to some degree? I don’t see how engaging Iran at this late date is going to help.
Gordon:
After reading some of your articles, I cannot help wondering whether you are a lobbyist working for the DPP of Taiwan. You seem to be very keen on seeing the demise of CPP on the mainland and support the independent movement in Taiwan. Your wishful thinkings are very entertaining.
After 10 years of trade embargo on Sadam with no result, you still think we can successfully stop Iran from getting whatever they want to get their hands on. Why blame the Chinese. Germany, France and Russians are selling far more than that to the Iranians. The Pentagon just singles out China to justify another big military spending. I guess it is a good opportunity for you to go along with it. Why do you think we can still have capability to punish China or anybody in the world for not obeying our order.
Confused, Germany and France have not blocked effective diplomacy on Iran. Russia and China have, plus they have supported the mullahs in other ways.
Is China unstable? More and more seem to think so, especially among senior Chinese leaders. Most wishful thinkers on China are those who feel the Communist Party will get through this crisis.
Maybe we cannot stop Iran, but, if we don’t, the world could suffer one great tragedy after another. I think we should try to prevent that, don’t you?
I did not know we have made any diplomatic effort to tackle the problem with Iran except sanction. From past experience with Sadam’s regime, it seems sanction is meaningless. I really don’t care whether ccp can stay in power in China or not. I just don’t want to see a mess in China created by the collapse of ccp. Do you think the world is better off if there is a revolution in China to overthrow the existing governement. We will be worse off if that happens. I hope your wish would come true.
Gordon:
In case of you do not know, China is the third largest economic power in the world and will be the second largest this year. Somebody told me that they are our third largest trading partner. I have no idea how that works. Try to imagine how the world economy will be like without China. DJ will hit 2000 pts in a flash. It is nice to be a arm-chair quarterback. Sometimes, we all have to smoke a peace pot to cool ourselves down to avoid unnecessary war. Don’t you agree. May peace be with you all. Make love. No war. Amen.
Confused, just as we are better off without Soviet communism, we would be better off without Chinese authoritarianism. Imagine a world where Beijing officials do not proliferate nuclear weapons technology, do not support terrorism, and do not seek to support every despot. I think it would be great if 1.5 billion Chinese got to decide how to run their own country.
Soviet communist screwed up their economy and faded away into history. Fortunately, their economy is isolated from the rest of us. We are not affected at all. However, look at the economic basket cases across Eastern Europe after the whole system disintergrated. Right now, China is a major part of the world economy. A large part of our economy especially resource based States, depends on China for their livelihood. If they go, so do we. We are all inter-connected (so-called mutual destruction assurance). If the current government disappears, who can guarantee a better one would take their place. It could be a Putin look-alike or worse, a Nazi type. How can we manage other country 4,000 miles away. Go and talk to people in the know. They can tell you horrified consequences that could emerge after the collapse of Beijing Government. Smoke some peace pot. My man.
Gordon:
I came across a blogger from Australian. Here is what he said about the Iraq war.
“The dark side of American culture, which is described by the historian John Lukacs as military populism. The war in Iraq only turned unpopular when it was clear to most Americans that they were LOSING the war. The other manifestations of this culture is a common belief in American exceptionalism and in the myth about USA being the last frontier of civilisation. This is the kind of mirage cum vision that most people in countries like the UK and Australia also share. Hence our governments support the war in Iraq.”
It is a very astounding evaluation of our culture and foreign policy. That is why we spend so money to build military to fight imaginary enemy everywher. It is sad.
Go through our history book. It was one war after another. The govererment had done a good job brainwashing us for the last 200 years, making us believe that all the wars were good and just.
confused, we depend on China? Not as much as China depends on us. Let me give you one statistic: In 2007, of China’s overall trade surplus of $262.2 billion dollars, all but $5.9 billion related to sales to the United States. China has to buy American debt if it wants to export to the United States.
Gordon:
You are talking about the degree of dependence of china on us which is more than our dependence on them. I am talking about we are not immune from the downturn of China. If China is in turmoil and they HAVE TO DUMP US TREASURY BOND REGARDLESS OF CONSEQUENCES,(I am talking about “HAVE TO”) what would happen to our financial market. Of course, they are the bigger loser in that regard. If China is in chaos, we will be in big trouble. Do you get my point.
Please, don’t wish political revolution and big upheaval in China. It is not in our best interest nor the Chinese.
Confused, if China had to dump our debt, it would have to buy something. If it wants renmenbi, Chinese enterprises or individuals would end up with our debt.
If Beijing wanted foreign assets, it would have to buy assets denominated in euroes and yen as a practical matter. To stablize their currencies, Brussels and Tokyo would have to buy dollars. There would be a lot of churning, but we would be fine. So our debt would be held by our friends.
So what’s the problem?
I read your blog for quite a long time and should tell you that your articles are always valuable to readers.