According to the Associated Press, a new UN report deems Palestinian terrorism the “inevitable consequence” of Israeli occupation. One has to ask: was terrorism the “inevitable” result of handing over Gaza to the Palestinians, as well? Because after more than two years Kassam rockets continue to land somewhat inevitably in Israel after being launched somewhat inevitably from non-occupied Palestinian territory. Here’s the report’s author, John Dugard:
[C]ommon sense . . . dictates that a distinction must be drawn between acts of mindless terror, such as acts committed by al-Qaida, and acts committed in the course of a war of national liberation against colonialism, apartheid or military occupation.
What about deadly acts carried out against a state that wants nothing more than to exchange land for peace? Dugard writes about this as if unaware that al-Qaida justifies the use of, say, the mentally deficient as bombs (something the Palestinians beat them to, by the way) with claims of national liberation and war against occupation.
Palestinian terrorism is in fact identical to the al-Qaida variety with respect to methodology, ideology, and public relations. Both groups target innocents as a matter of course, both are sworn to the complete annihilation of another group of people, both invoke Qur’anic principles when defending human slaughter, and both make lofty claims about liberation to certain credulous western audiences. The only thing inevitable about Islamist terror is the litany of justifications and apologies furnished by dangerous characters such as John Dugard.
Yup, the “optimistic” view from the Nazi neocon Bund perspective is that they’re hoping this is a ruse so Israel can go on killing people as soon as possible. You people are truly sick. You bathe in blood.
To John Hartland:
Israel isn’t killing people, you moron! Israel is protecting itself from islamofascist medieval bandits.
John Hartland: Do you think Israel wants to kill civilians? If so, can your provide evidence (an iota will do) that it does?
To everyone who will point out that John Hartland is a troll and should be ignored: I can’t ignore his moral idiocy and it offends me to see it left there without response.
Los Angeleno
trolling on a river….
Here is a pattern that Hartland will never move from. He rants without evidence, without sources, without any links to any significant article.
that is called trolling. There is no idea to exchange, there are no facts to look at, there is only hate, insults, and lies. So, what to do.
sing this song when you see his post — trolling, trolling, trolling on a river
and move on!
ohn Hartland: Do you think Israel wants to kill civilians? If so, can your provide evidence (an iota will do) that it does?
Just look at what Israel is doing. They are bombing hospitals, schools, and stocks of food and medicine. Gaza is their Warsaw Ghetto. The Israelis are no different than their enemies, and they learned the Third Reich’s lessons in ruthlessness well.
Any deal that hobbles both Hamas and the peace process is okay by me. If it brings in a Likud government, so much the better.
Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn what Mr. Hartman thinks.
I pray that Hamas makes good on it’s rhetoric to continue the “resistance” and fire off more Grads against civilians. Then the IDF can complete the mission, and wipe them out to the last man.
The pitiful refugees must be offered subsidised resettlement elsewhere, and the camps, at long last, closed, for everyones benefit. Those committed to Israels destruction will whine, but screw them. They offer the world nothing.
Save for the terminally stupid, who think Arabs and Jews can coexist, it is plain that lthere is only a One State Solution.
There is now lovely Mediterranean beachfront, upon whlch nice condos can now be built. Gaza will resume exporting great agricultural products to Europe, and everyone will become rich, and live happily ever after.
John Hartland: I do look at what they are doing. They (1) Did not bomb the hospital it believed Hamas’ leadership was under; (2) Diverted missles mid air that would have hit civilians (you can see the video); (3) per the New York Times, used “dud” missles to frighten civilians away; (4) fired only on building from which fire was coming at them (perfectly legal, even if it is a civilian building), or made mistakes and accidentially hit other buildings, and then apologized for it; (5) stopped their campaign mid stream. I don’t recall the Nazi’s doing any of that, do you?
You are clearly either very ignorant of the facts (in which case, I implore you to listen more and scream less), too stupid to understand the facts or a very bad person. You could also be a little of all three.
My neighbors growing up in Scarsdale were actual ex-Bundists. Really. Authentic pro-Nazis, especially the wife. Sieg heil! Ach, those were the days. Good times. And did I mention that I once went on a date with Eva Braun’s grand niece? Also absolutely true. Very sweet girl from Southern California (natch). Sigh.
You are clearly either very ignorant of the facts (in which case, I implore you to listen more and scream less), too stupid to understand the facts or a very bad person. You could also be a little of all three.
You forgot to call me an antisemite. You see, the traitor Bund at Commentary defines as an “antisemite” anyone who doesn’t buy into Israel’s genocidal wars.
The Israeli political left seems at least as obtuse as our own. Fortunately, we have space to allow them their foolishness. A segment of western civilization seems intent on cultural suicide. I plan to see Gran Torino tonight to see a bit of the other segment. It will be refreshing,
“An optimistic way of looking at the cease-fire is that it is an Israeli ploy designed to regain a favorable diplomatic position so that the war can be continued. If Hamas fires rockets at Israel after the cease-fire, Israel will be left with a compelling response to its detractors in Europe and America: No matter what we do, Hamas attacks us. They are forcing us to fight.”
Optimistic? How about fantasy. This is very bad news. The Israeli election cannot come fast enough. they need to remove the clowns currently running the show as fast as possible.
Seth Halpern: It’s hard not to want to verbally smack Johnny “I speak for the common folk” Hartland (Love that moniker! I am surprised he didn’t spell it “Heartland.”), but you strike just the right tone with him: Ridicule
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/01/ed_zwick_on_defiance_jewish_po.php
“Jeffrey Goldberg: You’re opening in Europe. We’ve heard a lot of talk in Europe comparing what Israel does in the Occupied Territories to what the Nazis did to the Jews. Are you worried about the way the movie will be understood in Europe right now?
Edward Zwick: You know, the argument comparing what the Jews are doing and what the Nazis did is just such a preposterous exaggeration, because one when one uses the word genocide, you have to ask: If Israel were interested in genocide than they have more than the means necessary to accomplish such a thing, and given that, in context, they’re using a certain amount of restraint. Yes, I know the word “restraint” is hard to talk about, given what’s happening in Gaza, but it is a type of restraint. What I’m responding to is equivalence. Words are important. Genocide is a word thrown around too easily. This is happening now in Poland and Lithuania. There’s an attempt to make an equivalence between alleged war crimes of the Bielskis and the Holocaust.”
but you strike just the right tone with him: Ridicule
This is correct, because if you’re a member of the Bund, just living here but not an American, then real Americans are inferior to the Master Race.
Some of you may have seen this but it’s a remarkable story.
Jerusalem Post, Feb. 27, 2007
A gang of serial rapists has been prowling the North, raping Jewish women as revenge for IDF actions in the West Bank, police revealed Tuesday after arresting six suspects.
“We are raping Jews because of what the IDF is doing to the Palestinians in the territories,” one of the six suspects told investigators from the Northern District Central Investigative Unit (CIU) during questioning. During their questioning and their brief appearance at the Nazareth Magistrate’s Court Tuesday, none of the four main suspects indicated that they felt remorse for their actions.
All of the suspects are from the Galilee town of Bir al-Maksur, a Beduin village near the Hamovil Junction. The last of the four known rapes was carried out in a forested area just outside of the village.
The arrest of six residents of the village shocked the locals, who said the police’s suggestion that the crimes were committed for anti-Israel reasons stirred up emotions even more.
Hasan Gadir, a village leader, said he called an urgent meeting with all northern local council representatives to be held Wednesday, in order to decide how to address the issue.
“We are shocked and horrified,” he said. “This was a dark day for all of us and we cannot take its implications seriously enough. Our tribe is known for its good temper and spirit, and we denounce those youths’ actions. We will never accept this sort of behavior. For us, this is worse than a murder.”
Gadir said he spent the day Tuesday with Cmdr. Dan Ronen, Northern District Police chief, and at the detention center, where he met with the suspects and their parents.
“I don’t know the suspects personally but I know their parents. They are all from good families, but none of us can even think why and how it happened,” he said. “We are going to examine the cases more deeply and draw conclusions, so that this will never happen again. I took it personally and it made me sad and shocked. This village has made me proud in the past, and I hope I will be proud of it again.”
Gadir’s reaction was echoed by other members of the town.
“I read about it on the Internet and it made me upset,” said Adel Hareb, manager of the Bir al-Maksur Education Department. “That doesn’t add respect to our community and this kind of behavior is against our belief, culture and tradition as Beduins.”
Speaking to The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday, Hareb said the village members “will support any punishment they receive, but I hope this turns out to be a mistake. I am sure that their family members denounce their actions just as we do,” Hareb added.
Bir al-Maksur is home to 7,000 residents, most of whom are Muslims.
“This is a friendly and safe village which many travelers from all sectors enjoy visiting. It is too bad that irresponsible people can ruin, with a wave of a hand, what we have built with hard work, love and care,” Hareb said.
Another resident of the village expressed shock at the report of the rapes, saying, “These kinds of crimes are shocking. We hear on the news about rapes all the time, and even if we cannot feel what the women who were attacked feel, this is just as terrible. Our village is a quiet place whose residents live in coexistence and friendship with all of its Israeli neighbors and I hope people don’t hold it against us all.”
You forgot to call me an antisemite.
one does not need to specify the obvious. we all know what you are.
This cease fire is absurd. If the US through the State Department pressured Israel into doing this (and I am quite aware of just how weak-kneed and delusional certain members of the Israeli government are, so pressure may be the wrong word) then it’s another in a long line of untenable policy decisions. There is no possibility of peace while Hamas, the direct proxy of Iran, exists. And a cease fire in the face of continued rocket attacks is beyond foolish and borders on suicidal. Nor will unilaterally declaring a cease fire secure the world’s good will. Much of the world condemned Israel for daring to defend itself the last two weeks, and they will do so again without the slightest regard for good will gestures.
I want to hear about Seth’s date with Eva Braun’s grand-niece.
“This cease fire is absurd.”
I daresay it is, but all the same, mightn’t it be better to spin it as somehow fearfully clever, postponin’ the circular firin’ squad until after the breakdown is undeniable?
Happy days.
Moshe – John Hartland is a complete idiot; pay no attention to him. Most Americans are not drooling anti-Semitics like him.
Unfortunately, Hamas has now agreed to a one week cessation of rockets–so that Israel can withdraw from Gaza!! That would constitute a triumph for the John Hartlands of this world who support barbarians like Hamas in pursuit of their genocidal aims vs. the Jews.
The ceasefire was unilaterally declared because Obama is coming into office on the 20th of January, in a few days. American would be pissed if some children’s school was bombed during the inauguration and take away news time from Obama.
The war was not about rocket attacks. The war was timed to take place before Obama comes into office.
Israel declared war when they imposed a blockade on food, fuel, and medicine 2 years ago. No government would take that lying down. So Israel stared the whole thing, just because Israel was unhappy about the government the people of Gaza elected.
Excessive force was used not only on civilians but on the infrastructure which posed no threat to Israel.
Israel has done this in the past. During the second Intifada, Israeli soldiers rampages through the West Bank and Gaza and seeked out computers, files and destroyed as much of the government records as possible. This way, over time, the Palestinians will be turned into a people without records, without history, without the old land deeds, and without culture.
Israel, I suspect (I am keen on military technology), has the capability to shoot down these slow homemade rockets with long exhaust trails. Israel was able to shoot down much faster Scud rockets from Iraq during the First Gulf War. But I guess its better to use the rocket attacks as excuses to do anything against the people of Gaza.
After 60 years of conflict in the Middle East you would be a fool or liar if you believe that Israel has only intentions of peace. As the overwhelming military power, it has the ability to provoke or not provoke, make peace or not make peace. We see the results but the delusional people in the west blames the victims and calls the invaders the heroes.
One way to get Arab villagers to leave their homes in 1948 was through terror. Today it’s the same, except that TV cameras are always on, so Israel says, “we hit this UN sanctuary by mistake”.
If they target terrorists exclusively, then the civilian casualties would be much much much lower. The high figure is a way to instill fear in the natives. Similarly, the infrastructure is targeted in the big goal of getting these people to move out of there.
The world is not really complicate when one sees the big picture.
#24: “But I guess its better to use the rocket attacks as excuses to do anything against the people of Gaza.”
But in that case, what does Hamas use these rocket attacks for?
To supply Israel with “excuses to do anything” etc.?
Was Pearl Harbor America’s “excuse to do anything against the
people of Japan”?
If Israel is killing civilians, then it’s because Hamas deliberately and shamelessly operates while hiding behind them, hoping that the news of civilian casualties will cause the world to turn against Israel. Is it any wonder that Hamas’s headquarters are in the basement of Gaza City’s main hospital?
The blame for the recent bloodshed in Gaza lies squarely with Hamas, not Israel. Hamas has been firing rockets into southern Israel and killing its citizens for eight years. EIGHT YEARS!!! I’m surprised that the Isrealis waited as long as they did to act. Isreal needs to re-occupy the Gaza Strip. In retrospect, they made a big mistake leaving it in the first place. It was like parents going away for the weekend and leaving a group of 6-year olds with the keys to the car, the house and the gun cabinet. The result was sadly predictable.
If the Palestinians ever wise up and realize that the idea of “reclaiming the whole of Palestine” is nothing but an infantile fantasy that is NEVER going to happen, then maybe peace can be made. But until then, Isreal has no choice but to keep a boot on their necks in order to safeguard their own citizens.
To Contra,
Quote: “But in that case, what does Hamas use these rocket attacks for?
To supply Israel with “excuses to do anything” etc.?”
They have the same rigid philosophy as Israel: Never allow an attack or provocation go unanswered. They are not very smart especially when they are infinitely weaker!
In any case, Israel by declaring a blockade started the whole thing.
Then Hamas withheld fire for 6 months in the understanding that some relief from the blockade will take place. Israel gace NOTHING in return for 6 moths of ceasefire. In actuality, Israel as secretly planning for the big invasion.
To Dan R.,
Quote:”Hamas has been firing rockets into southern Israel and killing its citizens for eight years. EIGHT YEARS!!! I’m surprised that the Israelis waited as long as they did to act.”
Please no more lies! You know as well as I that Israel ALWAYS retaliates and overwhelmingly. Its another lie that Israeli apologists say that Israel tolerated eight years of rocket fire and finally had enough and did something. What shameless liars.
Israeli apologists also say that Hamas fights cowardly behind civilians. What do you want them to do, shoot rockets off in a clear field in which they will be killed instantly by drones? By that logic, are not the Israelis cowardly by fighting behind armored tanks?
Anyway, we all know the truth, even if we deny it.
***Israel declared war when they imposed a blockade on food, fuel, and medicine 2 years ago. No government would take that lying down. So Israel stared the whole thing, just because Israel was unhappy about the government the people of Gaza elected.***
I’d be kind of unhappy if the Gazans elected a government whose stated philosophy was to wipe me off the face of the earth, too. That probably is one of their goals, they just don’t have a rocket ready for me yet.
To chuck martel,
Quote: “I’d be kind of unhappy if the Gazans elected a government whose stated philosophy was to wipe me off the face of the earth, too.”
So Bush and Israel’s program for democratization of the Middle East is selective democracy? Is that a true democratic process, if a people selects a government you don’t like, then destroy it by military means? Is not this a set back for this program?
Was it not the idea that in a democracy, people will get richer and become more moderate? Why not give Gaza a chance?
After 60 years of conflict in the Middle East you would be a fool or liar if you believe that Israel has only intentions of peace. As the overwhelming military power, it has the ability to provoke or not provoke, make peace or not make peace. We see the results but the delusional people in the west blames the victims and calls the invaders the heroes.
BINGO!
To John Hartland,
Thanks!
I live in America, but I am afraid the country is sinking into 3rd world status, a lot because the people are delusional. Add in greed and violence and that’s a bad mixture.
I find it strange that the Israeli blockade of Palestine deprived the Palestinian people of food and medicine, but allowed them weapons with which to provoke Israel.
The tactic of sending the bad children to their room without supper has not worked – now daddy is home and it’s time for a spanking. Of course I know plenty of people who think that spanking bad children is not a form of discipline, but another holocaust.
Where is Bush’s “roadmap” now ?!
Was this always the destination ?!
I SMELL NEW WORLD ORDER AND I KNOW IT WAS CONDI RICE THAT GREEN-LIGHTED THIS.
#31: “Is that a true democratic process, if a people selects a government you don’t like, then destroy it by military means?”
If we make the decision to destroy it democratically, then it is
a true democratic process…
Their democratic rights do not abridge ours!
In any case, it is a process of self-defense.
They have a democratic right to elect a government bent
on destroying us, and we have a self-defense right to destroy it first.
Neither right abolishes the other. They do their part in electing it,
we do ours in destroying it.
Even more can be said: if a hostile government
is tyrannical, self-appointed, then we may see its people
as innocent, and as our potential ally.
We will then try to minimize damage to the innocent
people as we fight their guilty government.
But if a government bent on destroying us has been elected
democratically – then that makes its people,
as well as the government, responsible, and it gives us the right
to act, not just against that government, but also against the
people that has elected it.
In acting so, we actually express our respect for
the democratic process that has made the people and
the government co-responsible.
To contra,
If you are a Palestinian whose house has been taken over by some Russian immigrant but you are not allowed to go back but are offered only “peace” as long as you don’t resist, would you go along???
The “peace” allows you to build your society on 1/10 the original size of the old Palestine. Jewish roads would criss cross your land and your people, nominally free, are actually controlled in their movements. Would you go along???
YAWN.
Palestine is lucky Little Satan didn’t do a Grozny on them.
Sorry, sympathy for the world’s very first freely elected suicide regime seems risible.
Sure – HAMAS was elected.
So what? HAMAS almost instantly lost legitimacy by starting a war with a democratic member of the UN.
The audacity of Khaled Mashaal, HAMAS’ supreme leader, who called for the launch of a third intifada from exile in Syria.
Mashaal wakes up in safe as milk in Damascus, turns on the tv, reads the paper and then says live on Al Jazeera TV – where else? – that “we want armed resistance, a military uprising to face the enemy”.
Couldn’t he smuggle himself into the Gaza Strip to be with his resistance fighters?
Ultimately Khaled Mashaal, who declared from Damascus that the resistance “has lost very few people” as the body count soars proves that to HAMAS the journey really IS the destination. A bloodsoaked quagmire where forming a tolerant, egalitarian society is never thought about.
By any standards HAMAS has failed miserably. It has failed in peace, failed in governance, and moreover failed in war. In addition to HAMAS’ ambiguous political agenda, their goal seems to be resistance for the sake of resistance, a quagmire where the journey really is the destination. It is time for HAMAS to split and allow more competent leaders to emerge before even more damage to Palestine’s cause happens.
The Middle East conflict is no longer just about creating a magical makebelieve NakBah free Palestinian state but about preventing the region’s takeover by radical mohammedism at exspense of secular regimes. Indeed, Palestinian statehood is impossible without neutralizing (or annihilating) the creepy time traveling intolerants who oppose any negotiated solution.