13 Responses to “Re: Never Vetted”

1. Maine's Michael says:

   February 6, 2009 at 7:43 am

   Egypt must be forced to reabsorb the Gazans, and ‘Jordan’ the west bankers.

   Sooner or later, ‘Jordan’ becomes Palestine – either by ballot, bullet (to the head of the british stenographer’s son who calls himself ‘king’) or succession (the the said king’s son).

   The Elon Plan, currently shelved, is ideal in many ways.

   The arab world created this monstrous culture, and the arab world must play a role in defusing this weapon masquerading as a nation.

   To hang this albatross about Israel’s neck for eternity, forcing here to feed, fuel, water, and employ them is deeply unjust – and a recipe for eternal terrorism.

   They (the ‘palestinians’) must be remolded as a society, or reabsorbed, as individuals, into the body of the arab world.
2. Charles says:

   February 6, 2009 at 7:54 am

   Ultimately, the Palestinian people must be enfranchised, either as Israelis or within their own sovereign state. Take your pick. Neocons want to spread democracy. Let them start with Israel.
3. David says:

   February 6, 2009 at 8:07 am

   Yeah Charles, you live with them in your country or have them in their own sovereign state shooting rockets at your rooftop and will see how long your ultimatum lasts. It is always easy looking at things from the safety of your computer screen.
4. chuck martel says:

   February 6, 2009 at 8:07 am

   The “Palestinians” are just Arabs. If the Arab/Muslim world is so concerned about their welfare, let them show it by absorbing them into their own society which is identical, same language, same religion, same diet, same everything. Their problem is that they just can’t accept a bunch of Jews happily living in the middle of their dystopia.
5. Maine's Michael says:

   February 6, 2009 at 8:23 am

   If they (Egypt and ‘Jordan)’ view the ‘palestinians’ as existential threats, I say tough s!@#. They made them into what they are, let them unmake them.

   Besides, they are hardly existential shtreats to authoritarian regimes such as Egypt and ‘Jordan’.

   Both these nations have ways of dealing with unrest/violence that are not available or palatable to Israel. Those also happen to be the only ways that work.
6. contra says:

   February 6, 2009 at 8:27 am

   #2: “Ultimately, the Palestinian people must be enfranchised, either as Israelis or within their own sovereign state.”

   As Israelis? Why not as Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis?
   Surely they have more in common with other Arabs than with
   the Jewish Israelis… An Arab majority would deprive Jews
   of their only national homeland – while Arabs have many.
   Such a “solution” – even considered in the abstract –
   would create far more injustice than it would eliminate.

   In the actual world we live in, the Israeli Jews would be
   massacred or flee under such an arrangement. They know it
   and would never agree, under any inducement. So that is that.

   “Neocons want to spread democracy. Let them start with Israel.”

   That’s absurd: Israel is democratic already… As for starting with
   Gaza, Judea and Samaria – did you not yourself say “ultimately”?

   “Ultimately” does not mean “start with”, but “end with”…

   Let us drink to that!
   Let democracy ultimately come to the Palestinians -
   ultimately – after the North Koreans, the Cubans, the Iranians, the Saudis,
   the Chinese, the Burmese, the Syrians, the Russians.
7. Eppur Si says:

   February 6, 2009 at 9:08 am

   If ONLY Gaza were returned to Egyptian control!

   Just picture it. One too many Hamas bombs going off in the Shura Council parking lot, and Egyptian tanks flood Gaza City, killing the “militants” and any “civilians” who happen to be within an artillary shell’s blast radius.

   Happily, in such a case the U.N. will NOT hold emergency sessions, the N.Y. Times will NOT spew hand-wringing editorials about “proportionality,” and the CNN cameras will NOT bother to whir. In fact, nobody will give a damn. Then, and only then, will there be a solution — if not peace, at least stability.
8. Seth Halpern says:

   February 6, 2009 at 9:08 am

   World diplomacy : Palestinian Arabs :: Liberalism : The rest of us.
9. Maine's Michael says:

   February 6, 2009 at 9:28 am

   #7,

   Exactly.

   Let this twisted genocidal ‘national liberation’ die a muffled death in the sub basements of Egyptian, Syrian, and Jordanian intelligence services.
10. John H. McCloskey says:

    February 6, 2009 at 9:37 am

    “This solution would be patterned on what Israel and Egypt agreed upon in their 1978 peace treaty: eventual Palestinian autonomy, without control of borders or airspace.”

    Surely it would be much better for Hyperzion if this arrangement is never called a “solution” nor claimed to be “patterned on” anything at all. Let it seep or sneak into existence darwinistically, so that there are no Intelligent Designers available to be cross-examined about details.

    Happy days.
11. Maine's Michael says:

    February 6, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Why is it that guys named McCloskey are invariably focused on Jews when they seek out wrongdoing in the world?
12. Seth Halpern says:

    February 6, 2009 at 10:19 am

    I actually agree with McCloskey. The WB could use some benign neglect. Anyway don’t forget the Hannitys, Moynihans, Buckleys, O’Dwyers, O’Reillys, McCarthys, Lowrys and Joyces. Some of our best friends are Irish.
13. Maine's Michael says:

    February 6, 2009 at 10:23 am

    Sth

    McCloskey’s perspective is not offered in good faith.

    But we do have some friends in that quarter, granted.
14. Seth Halpern says:

    February 6, 2009 at 10:26 am

    Not to mention that Princess Caroline The Schlossberg is the sweetest sweetie pie EVAH!
15. Maine's Michael says:

    February 6, 2009 at 10:35 am

    As was her grand dad, Joe ‘Leave Nazi Germany Alone’ Kennedy.
16. Sammy Finkelman says:

    February 6, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Charles: Palestinian people must be enfranchised…Neocons want to spread democracy.

    But Neocons also don’t believe that all political parties should be allowed to run. Actually George W. Bush said something like that in 2002, but he forgot or decided to ignore it.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jun/25/israel.usa

    “Peace requires a new and different Palestinian leadership, so that a Palestinian state can be born.

    I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practising democracy, based on tolerance and liberty. ”

    Well, that didn’t happen. That couldn’t happen. but not because maybe nobody there wants it. a lot of palestinians want it – they want it so much that many of them make sure to stay within Israeli jurisdiction when they can (in Jerusalem) and even take out israeli citizenship when available)

    The problem in the Palestinian territories is that all the parties are armed factions, with totalitarian origins, and nobody can advocate say unconditional peace or an alliance with Israel or that many lies have been told, without risking almost certain death.

    There is no freedom if positions cannot be freely contradicted.

    Now real free elections in the Palestinian territories cannot take place until there is no more interference from outside – that means Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and everybody else must be reformed first.

    The Palestinian territories NEED TO BE OCCUPIED. The only question is who should be doing the occupying. New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman prefers NATO. Others prefer Egypt and Jordan. The only country that might be actually willing to do it, and do it properly, is Israel. But Israel won’t do it now unless it is encouraged by the United States.

    Autonomy is possible – under occupation. Lack of occuopation only leads to more deaths, and economic destruction. What you get is economic isolation and air raids and targeted killings.
17. Maine's Michael says:

    February 6, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I would like to see the Palestinians enfranchised as well.

    Preferably, with 7-11′s in Michigan, and KFC’s in the Persian Gulf states.
18. Guy says:

    February 7, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    The no-state solution is really just another way of saying the one-state solution. The population bomb will ensure that if Israel does not make peace with the Palestinians, they will eventually become too numerous to handle peacefully. At this point, Israel will be forced to do one of two things: (1) create a real apartheid-type situation in which Palestinians are given Israeli citizenship, but are not given the right to vote (apartheid does not currently exist in Israel despite the insistence of certain former presidents) or (2) ethnic cleansing. Both alternatives go against Israel’s moral and legal character and so it is extremely important that the two-state (or three-state) solution be kept alive and implemented as soon and as safely as possible.
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    April 15, 2009 at 1:17 pm

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