Barack Obama anticipates and attacks his opponent before saying anything about himself. At bottom, they still believe the winning formula is McCain=Bush=Obama victory. I don’t recall such a negative start to an acceptance speech. Ever.
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Perhaps injecting Ivan with some Hopium would help?
And we’re also seeing here how faith was mistakenly placed- by some hawkish types-in the selection of Gates, Jones, Clinton as moderating influences on Obama’s inclination to sell America’s goodwill and trust to the lowest bidders, or non-bidders in the case of Russia and Iran.
I agree with Stuart Rose. Obama talks conservative and chooses “moderating influences” as a cover for extreme left-wing positions. It worked in the election, but falls apart on the world stage.
As always the dark cloud has a silver lining.
The Europeans wanted Obama and now they have him. And the Europeans are the ones who sold all this “soft power” hokum.
After a couple of shots of brandy there is a certain satisfaction in realizing that Putin will bother them a lot more than he bothers us.
I thought Joe Biden was the tough kid from Scraton who went back and kicked the bullies butts when they made fun of him. Come on Plugs, are you going to take that from some sawed off Rooskie flunkie?
“.” He said Russia will continue to put up “small bases” in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and restated Moscow’s threat to place Iskander missiles in the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad.”
oh man. this ruins my plans to vacation in Kaliningrad
seriously who the hell cares. those people are probably de facto russian anyway
6: Well, that’s the de facto awareness of facts among the believers.
Only Hollywood morons think the world is a “community” to be organized. Putin and Co. know it is a game for grown-ups. By the time they, and the Chinese, are done “organizing”, the late unlamented US of A will be on the ash heap of history. Which considering that its people freely elected this loser government, is precisely what it deserves.
Remember Palestinians freely electing Hamas government, and being told that this will have consequences; in a democracy people’s opinions matter…and have consequences; as it should be.
United States has chosen to fail us all. We need a new leader of the civilized world.
So wait a second, we’re expecting people to bend to our will because the Vice-President said we want to better relations with them? That’s supposed to be an “overture?” Really?
No wonder our “discourse” is so screwed up.
What Ivanov said was very reasonable. Essentially, he’s saying that relationships are more than just words, but that real deeds will determine the long term results.
Reagan said something similar but more superficial, “trust but verify”. In other words, ‘we trust you, but in the back of my minds we don’t trust you fully’.
Yet, Reagan’s words were taken to be the epitome of wisdom while here the words of a Russian minister are taken to be words from an untrustworthy person.
I think that you guys think like that because you ARE that mistrustful person you attribute to others.
The responses from this board are nothing short of a view of human minds pathologically attached to self interest without the slightest regard to the welfare of others.
Once we see the responses in this light everything makes sense. I could go away from here and I will. But in the mean time I do like to do my small share in exposing the evils in the world and make it a better place.
“If President Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary, & co. don’t cut their losses and stop treating uncompromising antagonists as misunderstood adolescents,” — Abe Greenwald
Not much insight as it pertains to Russia and Iran, but you may be right about how Obama will need to go forward with Republicans. It’s time to stop treating GOP obstructionists as “misunderstood adolescents.” Steamroll them and be done with it.
The moderate voices are good, but President Obama is the new face and the new leader. Russia and Iran are going to push him around not Gates, Clinton, or Jones. They can give him all the solid advice in the world, but in the end President Obama has to lead and seem credible to deliver tough talk/threats or any other serious action. Other world leaders see a nice squishy guy who wants everybody to like him. Their Intelliegence agencies know who the real President Obama, a politican who voted present over 95 times in the Ill. state senate. Has never lead a huge bureaucracy, a President who lets others set the agenda. Its going to be a dicey 4 years.
Big Picture,
Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister ridiculed his American counterpart, Vice President Joe Biden, and rebuffed President Obama’s empty diplomatic overture as the grandstanding, ineffectual nonsense that it was. Russia is continuing to threaten its neighbors and blackmail the world.
Are you going to “expose” this evil, or continue to harp on the imagined evil of neocons/Jews?
Steamboat,
are you blaming Republicans for Russia’s malfeasance or for Obama’s latest failure?
“Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister ridiculed his American counterpart, Vice President Joe Biden, and rebuffed President Obama’s empty diplomatic overture as the grandstanding, ineffectual nonsense that it was. Russia is continuing to threaten its neighbors and blackmail the world.”
Or, in the real world, they pointed out that “seeking to re-establish good relations” isn’t actually an offer of anything.
There may be some evil associated with Russian, China, Palestinians, etc. But Neocons and Repubs see ONLY evil and so bad relations it will be no matter the nuance.
This grave state of affairs is due to one’s OWN EVIL minds.
“The responses from this board are nothing short of a view of human minds pathologically attached to self interest without the slightest regard to the welfare of others.”
Really BIG PICTURE? Perhaps then you could explain why most of the responders on this board were stressing the need to stay in Iraq during the difficult dark days when Mr. Obama and every other Democrat (and some R’s too) said we need to get out – even if the likely result is a GENOCIDE (as said by Barack Obama). I’m quite certain that you were part of that crowd. If that’s a case of these posters not having the slightest interest in the welfare of others, then how would you regard yourself?
Answer that at your leisure.
Iraq was a neocon influence war. Saddam offered to step down at the 11th hours, but Bush refused the offer and hid the story. The war could have been won without bloodshed. But people wanted blood and we got blood.
I don’t believe for a moment that the Bush supporters and neocons are that concerned for genocide in Iraq. Try another angle.
Just because you believe the truth of whatever insulting nonsense you choose to believe doesn’t mean anyone here has to “try another angle,” churl. I confess I’m curious about your source for the Saddam surrender. It sounds like prisonplanet or Debkafile stuff.
lester #6:
Fortress America in an economically integrated world? Were you offering such incisive tidbits when Carter was getting rolled by the Commies?
Yes, try another angle. The argument that neocons and Bush supporters are so concerned for the lives of the Iraqi does not resonant with me but it may with you.
Or more likely Democratic Underground – same difference – if initial search results are indicative: The usual Mooresque constructions loosely based on statements and events that, rather than being “hid[den],” were in fact widely reported.
Still waiting for you to answer my question referred to again in #21. And, again, why would I or anyone else want to “try another angle”? Just because someone like you, who begins and ends almost every post to this board with scurrilous fictions asserted as fact, recommends I do so? Why don’t you try another strategy? I’ve got one: Why don’t you experiment for a week questioning your own authorities?
#17 BIG PICTURE, that was pretty funny. Nice touch with the “neocon” “slur.” Like CK, I too am interested about this 11th hour Saddam capitulation. I must have missed that in my “Neocon Weekly” publication.
And if the Iraq war was a “neocon influence war,” then why did 77 Senators vote for it? Were the non-neocons of the group overwhelmingly “influenced” by the neocons that they were forced to vote for the war against their will?
I have a strong desire to see the Iraqis and all other peoples in the Middle East (and the rest of the world for that matter) be able to live in a liberal democratic market economy society. And guess what? I’m a Bush supporter!! How is this possible??
You are a caricature of yourself with your boilerplate hard left impressions of those of us who haven’t joined you on the hard left. You do provide high comedy though. Not so high analysis.
“You do provide high comedy though. Not so high analysis.”
Yes, that sounds about right.
Now, where are Sam and Hartland to complete the ignorant, cowardly, embarrassing trio?
(Oops, I almost forgot about you, Lester. “Every Muslim is a potential terrorist. Potential, kinetic, blah, blah, blah.”)
This place is full of ‘em.
@23 I guess that depends on what sort of high analysis you are talking about
. I am sure BIG PICTURE is furiously searching through his dogeared back issues of the Nation to find the eleventh hour offer.
JFK started off with a weak impression. It almost started a nuclear exchange. But JFK managed to show some backbone when he needed to.
If anyone remembers Biden from the Cold War and his ideas toward accommodating the Soviets, this should come as no surprise; he’s just picking up with the Russians what he wanted to do with the Soviets. The notion that we should exchange Russia cutting its stockpile of largely useless nuclear weapons for us shelving missile defense as the press is reporting is classic Biden: Make your adversary give up something useless in exchange for us giving up something important. All in the hopes that they’ll like us and be more cooperative on other issues.
Biden fought Reagan tooth and nail to prevent Reagan’s efforts that brought down the Soviets.
But as one person said above, in the end it’s our own fault for electing these ignorant bozos, and we’re going to have to pay a heavy price for our foolishness.
Yes, you guys NEED another angle. It just does not sound right that you and Bush are so concerned about Iraqi lives.
Here’s a reference to Saddam’s offer that was covered up:
“Hossam Shaltout, a former political adviser to Saddam Hussein’s son, said today that before the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March of 2003, Saddam expressed his intent to yield to all American demands, but that the Bush administration refused his offers, according to a press release on Yahoo News. ”
You guys keep implying that I am anti-Semitic. Why is that? I think on this you need another angle as well.
You guys really don’t have much angle left. Why not just be honest and live a normal life instead a life of mental masturbation? Do you people ever get tire of your convoluted logic and cynical conclusions.
Yes, there are some evil in the world, but those who ascribe evil to everyone else are themselves evil.
Big Picture: You are so naive. If Saddam really wanted to surrender he would have publicly proclaimed it rather than whispering in the ear of his son’s obscure political adviser. That is how things are done in the real world, not in the fantasy world you seem to be living in.
Me naive? You guys are telling me that neocons and Bush supporters are so worried about genocide in Iraq.
Saddam was hanged so he was smart to cave in, though it did him no good.
Obama voted present for 20 years in a congregation where the preacher beseeched G-d to damn America. He wouldn’t wear an American flag pin. He allied himself with radicals, terrorists and antisemites. What we’re seeing now is not some fluke, unfortunate mistake or unhappy byproduct. The radical Left craves American humiliation, always has. I’m afraid this is exactly the Change we were promised, and it’s only just begun.
“a former political adviser to Saddam Hussein’s son, ”
thats your source! hysterical. wow, I didn’t expect to see the phrase “useful idiot” be applied so broadly.
Can you all believe this child? If Saddam had really wanted to surrender – fully accepting the conditions offered by Bush, puppet of the dreaded Neo-Cons – he could have accessed the world’s media at any time, either personally or through one of his many well-known mouthpieces, and he would have received extremely willing listeners. Many supporters of the war were in fact worried that Saddam would employ a stalling tactic based on such an offer – promising surrender or something that was very close to it, but, as in the past, finding ways to wiggle out of his solemn, publically affirmed agreements.
It also should be noted that if poor, poor pitiful Saddam felt his offers had been unjustly ignored, he had literally years to make his case before he was finally executed. Note also that Bush very publically gave an ultimatum in a speech to the US and the world on the eve of the war, giving Saddam and his cronies a last chance to leave the country after other deadlines for compliance had long since passed.
By the way, use of the world media is often how communiques have been exchanged between adverse parties since there has been a world media, especially because the diplomatic services and other representatives of autocratic governments aren’t always trustworthy and have a way of giving contradictory messages.
Makes me think of the scene in DR STRANGELOVE when it’s revealed that the Russians have a doomsday machine, but have kept it secret.
It’s the end of the great war room scene and on youtube, at 5:50 on the following link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv-PXK25mDA&feature=related
So, are we to conclude that Saddam kept his peace offer a secret because he loved surprises? Then, what, changed his mind?
“Useful idiot”, a term for Bush war supporters.
You guys are still into that Bush propaganda thing. Its over. He’s gone.
Saddam decided to give in at the last minute. It was too late, the media was not ready and Bush’s people had decided on war long ago (June 2002, exactly). The story is true but as usual the useful idiots were not told.
BIG PICTURE, like I said in an earlier post – high comedy.
Big Picture,
what does “evil” have to do with Obama’s failed non-overture? What do any of the comments you’ve written have to do with his idiotic attempt to “dialogue” Russia into to acting responsibly?
Talking about general mindset here and in the neocon/Republican world. Follow my posts.
#10: BIG PICTURE, “I do like to do my small share in exposing the evils in the world and make it a better place.”
The world is getting better all the time,
but you are not helping: you are oozing painful
hatred at every pore. It hurts you more than anyone else.
Try praising a “neocon”, for some little thing, first thing in the
morning and last thing before bed.
You’ll feel better in a week or two.
19- the more “economically integrated” we are the less we need the military. when goods come over borders armies do not and vice versa
Big Picture,
nobody cares about your idiotic distortions of the non existent “neocon/Republican world.” This thread is about your Anointed One’s failed non-overture to Russia. Follow the topic.