Satire only works when there’s room for exaggeration between a subject and its characterization. For politically conservative satirists like P.J. O’Rourke things are getting extremely cramped. About a month and a half ago, O’Rourke wrote,
HELLO? Bailout people? Mr Secretary of the Treasury Hank Paulson? Aren’t you forgetting somebody? Like me? I’m a print journalist. Talk about financial meltdown! Print journalists may soon have to send their kids to public schools, feed dry food to their cats and give up their leases on Prius automobiles and get the Hummers that are being offered at such deep discounts these days.
Today the Associated Press reports:
The French state is to help provide free newspaper subscriptions to teenagers for their 18th birthdays, President Nicolas Sarkozy announced Friday. But the bigger gift is for France’s ailing print media.
Sarkozy also announced a ninefold rise in the state’s support for newspaper deliveries and a doubling of its annual print advertising outlay amid a swelling industry crisis.
Sarkozy argued in a speech to publishers that the measures are needed because the global financial crisis has compounded woes for a sector already suffering from falling ad revenues and subscriptions.
Well, life imitating art is old news. What raises more concern is the newer phenomenon of American leaders imitating European socialists. O’Rourke just might be able to hang onto his Prius — even if it means forfeiting his calling.
now up 120 on the day
Bill Kristol and Jennifer Rubin have commented on this matter quite well.”
Oh, well – case closed – the two ‘experts” have weighed in.
I just did a quick calculation. GE traded around 26 when Obama took the election lead for good and at around 19 when he was elected. Today it is in the mid-sixes. In order to get back to the price when Obama took the lead, GE would have to go up 15% every year for the entirety of Obama’s first term, and second term and the next four years (of Biden?). In order to get back to the price at election, GE would have to go up 15% every year for the duration of his eight years. I know you can’t blame all this on Obama, but there have been no shocks to the economy in months — except self-inflicted ones from the Obama administration.
“He is trying to frame this as if the cratering market is evidence that he is putting in place the pieces for the right long-term strategy. In fact, the market is collapsing precisely because Obama is doing almost everything wrong when it comes to putting in place a sound long-term strategy…”
Right – because the market ALWAYS knows – ALWAYS! Just ask the guys at pets.com…
market is exploding to the upside. but can it last?
I never heard George W. Bush attack Keith Olbermann, who was vicious in his daily attacks. Why didn’t he? Because Bush thought that Democracy is working when people speak their minds freely, no matter what they say. Not this thin-skinned White House.
Ah, Lester, the trolls have extended their polls to the market.
Warpublican, brilliant commentary as usual. Filled with facts and original insight. good work.
— In general, you know, the full joke of the Obama campaign is now fully on display. You know, David Brooks, Chris Buckley, and even Maureen Dowd have woken up to the reality of a full onslaught socialist take over. That is not what we were sold say the liberals and moderate Republicans. You know, a lot of us had a sense that buyer’s remorse would kick in at some point. At some point, you know, people would say “Which Barack Obama is that?” and feel swindled. So, you know, you know.
And even Obama’s language, along with Caroline Kennedy, is suffused with collectivism. You know!! I, the President do not even have to make a coherent argument, because you already know!! or you are going to know, and if you refuse to know! you are Rush Limbaugh, evil incarnate, because the world has 2 people, those who follow (good) those who do not (evil, Rush Limbaugh people)
The strategy is so obvious. Actually, it was very obvious during the campaign, but there is no place to hide now. The only thing to do is quote the polls, quote the market when it rises, and make fun of bloggers with logical ideas. Good luck to the trolls, your game is over. It was hangover in America, maybe for a couple more months, but people are waking up, even in NYC! and it will be morning in America again.
#3,—-”no shocks to the economy in months — except self-inflicted ones from the Obama administration.”
Tell us about the effect of GE’s Financial Services subsidiary on the rest of the Co. Did Obama approve all that worthless debt they loaned out. Oh, and AIG is responsible for GE’s Collateralized Debt losses;GE is waiting for their check.
Obama never hold a real job in his lifetime. He looks like a dupe and idiot in the interview.
Obama needs to trained on a make-believe world where his loyal trolls live.
Really, lester and Warpublican Review, I know you like to tweak the tails of the writers and readers of this site and sometimes I even enjoy it, when you do it well. But, please, attacking stupid strawmen diminishes your product enormously. To argue that the market isn’t discounting Obama’s intentions is plain silly. Is it overdiscounting them? Probably. I, as one of those retired people in abject fear, certainly hope so. And, to suggest a one morning rise proves anything is exactly the kind of balloon you would normally be deflating.
Obama doesn’t care about the market or the economy, and won’t care until it is collectivized. The “smart set” is in-charge, and that is all that matters–they know what is best for all of us. Stop pestering Obama with questions.
market is now up 154
this is called a short squeeze.
you guys are shorting obama and if he were a stock you would need to cover now. it can be really harrowing waiting for that cover to go through, trust me.
Trolls don’t poll: trolls, like The One, have always known everything they need to “know.” (As opposed to, e.g., what p/e ratio means.) It may be time for gruff billygoats to stop dumping on the trolls and just dump them.
#8 — those are company-inflicted wounds — but not generalized shocks. My point, possibly not well stated, is that there have been no unforseen exogenous shocks (as usually defined) that is, no major currency collapses, no unexpected wars, no massive spikes in the price of oil, etc. All of the usual generalized pricing elements were priced in following the panic of September — including the company specific ones you note. Remember, Warren Buffett has warrants to purchase GE stock at $22.50. He bought them a few weeks after Obama took the lead for good. He also signaled his continuing support of Obama at about that time and encouraged other Americans to follow his lead.
Well now. If GE improves 10% every year with no reversals, the sage of Omaha’s warrants will be in the money in June, 2023. Perhaps even Buffett is rethinking his support of this fellow.
13 if you think this place is bad check out
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/mb/GE
#14, Buffett knows that this economy* is mortally wounded. He will be there for Obama when they throw in the towel and start to Build the infrastructure of our next Free Market Economy.
*Born-1971/Died-2007/rest in peace
To those saying the market is up today, there are always strong rallies in the middle of bear markets. That doesn’t mean the general trend isn’t down still.
You can just tell by the language Obama is using that he is clueless about the market.
Yesterday, he was comparing the stock market to political polls. The difference being polls don’t mean anything, but with the markets trillions are being lost. The mere mispeak of a Giethner, Obama, or Pelosi can cause hundreds of billions in lost wealth. This is no joke.
He says don’t pay attention to daily fluctations, that it will all balance out. Yet it’s only gone down since he has been elected. His policies inspire no confidence in the markets.
We are leading a dangerous course. Soon we will be saying how look how the markets have failed everyone, meanwhile he worsened the problem. Next, only the government can save us, through confiscation of private property. Next, our liberty. Obama will only be happy once we are all working back to back in rice fields. Then we will have achieved full equality and the true liberal utopia.
will- I agree, there is no telling what the market may or may not do tomorow or later today.
that said, we are now up 168
Imbeciles on the left claim that the current months-long cold snap is not relevant when they argue that manmade global warming is a fact. Then they turn around and use one day of modest gains in the market as proof that the Liar in Chief is doing nothing to harm our futures.
Re: #12
No, Lester, it’s called a “dead cat bounce”…
7
Since you love polls, here are a few new ones
Gallup says the number of people who say they are happy has increased by 14 points since Obama was elected, to 54%.
The first week in Nov., 43% of Americans were worried about their personal finances. That number has declined to 37% today.
Rasmussen says Obama’s approval index is up to +16 today.
The WSJ says 7% of Americans have a very positive opinion of the Republican Party, tying and all-time low.
Aren’t you the guy who was always claiming candidate McCain was about to surge? How’d that work out for you? No wonder you hate polls and any other window on reality. I can’t wait to see how fast the same losers who are blaming Obama for the market decline today (84% of Americans disagree), twist themselves into knots claiming that Obama deserves none of the credit for the market’s rebound.
Man, America needs a second political party. Maybe something will pop up to the left of the Democrats. There’s certainly no signs of life to the right.
Trolls love to site polls regardless if samplers are correct or not. I bet the Messiah promise them 72 virgins and free condoms courtesy from Madam Pelosi.
20 you may well be correct.
Prediction: At some point today, Obumma will remark that the market is finally turning around as proof that his socialist, redistributive agenda is finally beginning to show signs of working. This despite his having said yesterday that you should ignore the market.
THE TROLLS ARE RIGHT. This Country IS FINISHED as a land of freedom, hope and opportunity.
I say this not because of UNDUE pessimism because of current polls, but rather of a fairly sober evaluation of political reality. Obama’s policies will dramatically slow if not grind the recovery to a halt. They will continue the destruction of wealth and will keep the market very low. In spite of the media, and the union money this will hurt the Democrats very substantially. The Democrats will loose seats in 2010 and they may loose the House. Obama will not have a 1936 Roosovelt-style landslide, will be hard pressed to match his numbers from last November and may, if challanged by a very effective messenger with a clear, coherent message, loose the Presidency and the Dems the Senate. Maybe.
All of this will not be enough. The current situation, exacerbated by what Obama will be able to enact will so criple the economy that, with the Baby Boomers retiring all will be over. It can only be reversed by HUGE Republican landslides in 2010 and 2012 and immediate enactment of a pro-growth agenda and repeal of most Obama enactements. Chances of this happening? Slim.
#21 – Gee, what do all those poll responders know that the market doesn’t? Clown.
#25 – courage, cavalier. Maybe you’re right, but maybe the lessons we need to learn are deeper than can be absorbed in one or a handful of election cycles. “Fortune, to aggrandize Rome, and raise her to the height she reached, judged it necessary…to humble her.”
25
Well, they probably know that markets, when they are working, respond more heavily to the near term. Stock values are simply sums of earnings cash flows above their costs of capital, with the closest cash flows given the heaviest weightings. What this means is that the rosiest outlook for the future might not offset expected declines tomorrow.
Near term, things aren’t pretty. Eastern Europe is near collapse. The world is in recession. The stock market are rationally discounting these things. Longer term, stimulus will kick in, the economy will recover, and America will emerge a stonger, more egalitarian, better regulated nation capable of creating sustainable growth, as opposed to the unsustainable bubble that we experience during the past eight years.
That’s maybe what they know that the markets don’t. If markets were always right, bubbles wouldnt’ exist. Remember, the economy was already in recession at exactly the same time the market reached its peak in October 2007. That does not bespeak an all-knowing stock market.
Let me know if your homework stumps you again tomorrow.
Clown.
The stimulus will contribute to growth in a very minimal way as such recovery as will occurr will take place primarily in spite rather than because of it. America will be more equal, “better regulated” and much less capable of creating wealth. Those at the bottom end of the income scale will be closer to those at the top and this may satisfy people motivated by envy and resentment but they will also be worse of in absolute terms and their chances of actually moving up the income scale will be dramatically reduced. Enjoy.
KarlTroll,
so the crashing stock market and economy are fantasies and polls which claim everything is wonderful are a “window on reality?”
Idiot. You don’t even understand the economic clap-trap you paste. When the government spends money it doesn’t have on special interests the only thing it stimulates is graft. Your Messiah’s spending bills have already caused short term losses and when they cause long term losses you will continue to cite bogus polls about hope and change.
The stock market is still lower than dirt and the economy sucks. So much for your savior.
“To argue that the market isn’t discounting Obama’s intentions is plain silly.”
I don’t argue that – i argue that the market is frequently and demonstrably wrong. I’d also argue that republicans who are getting all wet over a stock market crash they’re using to tar a new administration, may find themselves eating those words if the market picks up again…
#31
If our currency’s shot to hell because of insane money creation,why would investors want to put dollars into anything but commodities?
Lester-
The Dow’s only up 139 now.
Seriously, you predicted that the market would be up 500 points last week after Obama’s speech. Only it went down about five hundred points instead. Now you’re excited that the stock market is recovering to a point about 4% below the close before the speech, and ~8% below your prediction. Does the cognitive dissonance even register?
Sure, the market could be wrong, it’s wrong lots. But as a poll, it’s the real deal because it’s more than opinion, it’s actual money, or at least the electronic blips they give us.
34
Right. Prove it. The complexity of the market is such that it is very hard to discern what it is measuring, discounting, or reacting to at any one moment. It can go down because options are expiring on a particular day. It can down on a Friday because people don’t want to worry about their investments over the weekend. It can go up, over the course of several years, based on vapors, as we saw with the tech and housing bubbles.
A poll offers an answer to a specific question and within a measurable margin of error. Such specificity is impossible in a market. It’s apples and oranges.
Ever see the line on a horse race? It’s a poll too, where money is at stake. And the betters are usually wrong. If you have evidence that the addition of money makes a poll more accurate, bring it on. You may think you have an argument, but you really don’t.
Or just tell me what your market poll tells me about Bobby Jindal’s rebuttal performance last week. My polls tell me he sucked.
Well, the market can, on occasion reflect pure fantasy. People who had faith that ivesting in the NSDAQ at 4500 would result in large returns over time were only slightly less rational than those who believe Obama policies will gnerate real and sustainable growth.
KarlTroll,
you are such a joke. You are the one who loves the polls. You are a sad collectivist who can not form an argument. You can only follow the leader and quote how many people have also buckled under the weight of collectivism.
We conservatives continue to think and engage ideas.
33 marty- “Seriously, you predicted that the market would be up 500 points last week after Obama’s speech.”
that’s not true. i said if they rolled out a plan for the banks the nit would go up 500 points. they have not done that yet. that’s why i don’t particularly trust this rally. there is still vagueness about the assetts
30
“The stock market is still lower than dirt and the economy sucks. So much for your savior.”
Love the rage! I can just see the flecks of spittle on your yellowing wife-beater T shirt.
You know, Obama’s been president for all of six weeks. I’m willing to give him a bit of time. It was your party that drove the bus into the ditch. Don’t complain about the size of the tow truck that comes to pull you out. Heck, we would a few weeks closer to recovery if the Republicans weren’t working so hard to ensure America fails. Although, truth be told, I’d imagine that Ralph Nader probably would be a bigger electoral draw than Sarah Palin if the Democratic party blew up tomorrow.
What was the WSJ number: By two to one, Americans believe Dems are more capable than Republicans of rescuing the economy? Awesome country.
this is obviously some sort of rubberized dead cat.
KarlTroll,
Those numbes will change dramatically but the fact that they are such even at this time reflects a perfectly pathetic and contemptible country. Still, as I say, they are unlikely to change enough (and we need more than a compelete fip flip which is certainly possible, and in light of the policies being proposed and those that will be enacted, even likely) before the damage can be reversed.
When do Bush and Greenspan take responsibility for creating this mess?
42- Bush would before greenspan ever did. that guy is out of his mind. did you see him on “house of cards” on CNBC?
Note well that Bill Kristol doesn’t show he has any more of a clue that Obama when it comes the economics of the business cycle.
Lester-
You’re right-you did say the bank plan rollout last week. But the big event last week was Obama’s speech, not a bank plan rollout. Everyone’s still waiting for that…why has that not come about? I heard that Obama has not submitted any Deputy or Under Secretaries names’ to the Senate for approval? Why is he keeping Geithener from having a team who can put together a banking plan? What is the administration’s prioirity? It does not seem to be the economy.
BTW, one day is not a rally.
marty- I would compare obamas handling of this issue with bush’s reaction to katrina. I’m not sure who the brownie would be rahm emmanuel or tim geitner but he is catching a big break with this rally.
at the same time, the governmetns we had during good times were also pretty bad in most measurable ways but we had the good times. So maybe the market gives the government a little charity here and there.
all i know is I have been waiting for a plan for the banks since october and have gotten absolutely everything but that including health care reform, mortgage relief, kitchen sink repair and baby and marriage promotion
up 216 sheesh
The fact that Lester is please with so tiny a bump in so precepitous a plunge reflects the satisfaction that Obamanites will derive from the smallest handouts.
I voted for bro ron paul!
Lester-
You say that the governments we had in good times wee pretty bad. Who do you include in that? Not Carter, obviously. Does it start with Reagan and go through to Bush 2? That was a twenty plus year run with several hiccups for sure but definitely an upward trend. What would constitute a good government in your mind?
25 – Where do markets come from? Other planets?
30 – Exactly. 25 believes that polls of persons who may or may not have an direct economic stake in the market are better indicators of the economic impact of policies than the behavior of the markets themselves.
35 – Oh, now I get it – the market’s behavior over YEARS means less than a daily or weekly poll regarding the economy.
Now that’s reality based!
@Smoke
I think there is some misunderstanding here. I absolutely hold the view that markets reflect economic reality far better than polling snapshots. I say only that polls reflect political reality. Over time even those sufficiently ignorant or delusional to believe that Obama’s policies will actually help rather than crush the economy will come to their senses, manage to add 2+2 and get 4 and hand Democrats very significant political losses. I am simply expressing my, I believe well founded, skepticism that then numbers of such people will be sufficient to change the political configuration in such a way as to reverse the damage being done by what is and will be enacted in the next months.
The market is up because China unveil their own stimulus package. Obama and Geithner duo has nothing to do with it.
50- my point is that the market doesn’t wait for like a perfectly sane response from the government, just a kind of okay one. I would agree that 80-2000 we had relatively sound governance.
I’m saying an inept govenment during good times is less dangerous than one durting bad times and that you can have inept government and good times at the same time
inept government during bad times = Obama administration
If the 52% who voted for O would just demonstrate a little confidence that he’s good for America by investing in its future, the market would not be tanking. I guess them sitting on their hands is all the show of faith in the future they can muster.
One
Big
Ass
Mistake,
America
“did you see him on “house of cards” on CNBC?”
Saw it. Greenspan knows exactly that he has done. Read his 1966 piece on gold and the ’29 crash.
He knows.
59 – this is very esoteric but leo strauss was i think a professor at the chicago school. strauss had what I consider to be a flawed understanding of natural law in that he believed in a sort of wise few ruling society in a benevolent way. He believed in other more sensible things as well but not in the protection of the average person from these so called elites. I heard a little of that in greenspans explanation of markets “not being self regulating” as he had thought. that’s silly. the market was responding to HIS stimilus in the form of easy money. there is no school of monetarism that says the banks are for some reason going to stop inflating a bubble because they know better and like care about the world.
but that’s the type of weird thinking that goes on outside of the austrian school. not for me.
you don’t trust wise people with the power, you minimize the power as much as possible
41
“a perfectly pathetic and contemptible country”
I guess all the patriotism is on the left after all.
Leave ‘em laughing, that’s my motto. If you can get in at least one “rubberized dead cat” reference (see lester’s #40), it’s a good day.
cavalier – I was not challenging anything you said – I was directing my comments to KarlRove.
I don’t think I would disagree much – if at all – with your comment at 53.
56 myrna – indeed. romney would have been much better
I dont usually comment, but after reading through so much info I had to say thanks