Stuart Rose, on Jonathan Tobin:
You know, as the secretary and the others have said, when the Iranians unclench that fist, there will be a hand waiting to greet them.
Yikes! And we thought Condi Rice uttered some mealy mouthed statements. Do Obama and Clinton really believe the mullahs are basically petulant children, angry little boys who might, after a period of bluster — and funding terrorism (say, 30 years), be coaxed to negotiate in good faith by the promise of friendship with the U.S., just as North Korea is planning Iran’s welcome to the rogue nuclear club party?
One question for all those who were so high on Hilary, seeing her appointment as a sign that a tough-minded “realism” might characterize Obama’s foreign policy: What honestly, strongly held foreign-policy beliefs of hers did she sacrifice in order to be Secretary of State? Now, if she really is capable of putting her principles above her ambition, she will not rule out the possibility of resigning if Obama does nothing more vis-a-vis Iran than play a solo version of the European 3 who spent years being amiably hoodwinked by Tehran.
“Here’s how one top Wall Street exec,”
the guys who got us into this mess. look, there is enough incompetence to go around between wall street and the beltway, who together bruoght this mess upon us. don’t take either of their sides.
and gasparino is in a panic because GE is on the brink.
Obama is tone deaf and doing a bad job in this crisis but charlie gasparino is donkey and where was he when the money was rolling in? rolling in it with the rest of them and now GE, a de facto financial, is suffereing and he’s full of ideas about thrift and good governance.
We don’t demonize anyone, you demon!
Yes, Obama should listen to Jim Cramer, who said Bear Stearns was fine and Lehman was peachy and that everyone should buy buy buy even as the economy was palpably imploding. Seriously, Rubin, do these inept corporate executives at least slide you kickbacks, or are you so dumb that you shill for free?
What portion of our GDP is directly attributable to the Federal Government?
re 1 – charlie, you aren’t a donkey. what can i say there is no editing on this thing sorry
Or maybe Obama could just hire a top Wall St executive as his Treasury Secretary. Hank Paulson’s probably free….
Jennifer Rubin read about a guy who talked to an unnamed guy on Wall Street. …. who no doubt was one of the guys who drove our economy off a cliff and then asked for a taxpayer funded parachute.
But Jennifer Rubin thinks Obama should be listening to the anonymous guy, who could be John Thain or Jimmy Cayne or any of a hundred other of the people who bankrupted Wall Street.
If only Obama were as smart as Jennifer Rubin, he too would base the nation’s policy on a Charles Gasparino column. Gasparino, based on his crack (or is it crack-fueled?) reporting, guaranteed that AIG was not at risk of going out of business … just before AIG went to Washington for a bailout because it was going out of business.
You can’t make this stuff up.
As wrong as it may be economically, tell me a politician who has been damaged politically by attacking Wall Street types? They’re perfect whipping boys. Just look at them when they testify: snivelling and arrogant at the same time; unable to articulate an economic vision for the system that supports them. And now, with the death spirals of their esoteric financial instruments so painfully happening before our eyes, exposed as culprits in this mess. What’s there to like? What’s there to defend?
7 well this illustrates the horrendousness of the whole thing. are we doomed or what?
“This does not bode well for either the economy or the president’s political fortunes. The class warfare, anti-business venom coming from the administration is a far cry from his campaign rhetoric which called for national unity and an end to the demonization of political opponents. ”
Please J-Rub – try to report instead of blogging your little hopes and dreams.
1 – The bankers are skum who should be put in jail for the fraud they’ve hoisted on this nation. Now I know this is a Jewish site, but does defending bankers really bode our tribe well?
Maybe you should read Bloomberg:
“The more the big banks lift their skirts, the scarier their dwindling capital starts to look.
Perhaps never before have so many banks’ balance sheets been so patently full of hot air. Bank of America Corp. last week disclosed that its loans at the end of 2008 were worth $44.6 billion less than what its balance sheet said. Wells Fargo & Co. said its loans were worth $14.2 billion less than their book value. The spread at SunTrust Banks Inc. was $13.7 billion.
Keep in mind: These are the banks’ own numbers. If there’s any bias in them, it’s bound to be on the side of optimism. ”
And looking to CNBC for financial adivce, news or astute commentary? Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N4gtTgmbMo
Who do you think will win this debate?
Yes. Yes we have. And recently. If you look at what Bush did, not what he said, you’ll note that Bush _was_ contemptuous or hostile toward wealth creators, businesses and markets. But perhaps you need to know some economics to “get” this.
you wrote:
“Rarely if ever have we had a president this contemptuous or hostile toward wealth creators, businesses and markets.”
9
“are we doomed or what?”
No. We will be fine. Because Obama is not Jennifer Rubin. And, unlike the Republican brand, the economy will recover.
Great Ben Smith article on Politico:
“Four months after John McCain’s sweeping defeat, senior Republicans are coming to grips with the fact that the party is still – in stock market terms – looking for the bottom.
“Republicans this week are processing two sobering new polls that found the party’s support reduced to a slim one-quarter of Americans. In the absence of a popular elected leader, its most visible figure is a polarizing radio host. Its strategic powerhouse is a still-divisive former House speaker forced from power more than 10 years ago.
“And its hopes of demonstrating swift and visible change by pushing people of color to the fore have been dented by the stumbles of the party’s two most prominent non-white leaders, national Chairman Michael Steele and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19636.html
http://www.americablog.com/2009/03/cnbc-meets-daily-show.html
^same footage as warpublican but cleaner from com central site
Is this an adjunct of the Huffington Post?
I think that Obama’s team are trying to bring back from the dead the “shadow banking system”. this provided “wholesale credit” to the economy,in fact.40% of our total credit came from the shadow. Big mistake let it stay dead,create something new that works,but Geithner wants it back;he’s comfortable with it,and all his “buds” want it back also.
Some of the trolls here were gloating when the market bounced back up a little yesterday. It is down -222 points as I write this, where are they today?
Oh, but I keep forgetting the market is only a ‘poll’ to Obama, not like it contains anyone’s college or retirement savings.
“Yes, Obama should listen to Jim Cramer, who said Bear Stearns was fine and Lehman was peachy and that everyone should buy buy buy even as the economy was palpably imploding.”
If you make predictions every day you are of course going to be wrong a lot. If you could predict the market or stocks with just 65% certainty, you would be the greatest investor of all time.
Previous to the crisis,The financial sector represented 40 percent of GDP, which is to say that the exchange of paper claims to wealth was the driving force behind economic growth. The production of useful things, that actually improve people’s lives and raise the standard of living, had been replaced by the trading of complex debt instruments and opaque derivative contracts. Securitization was at the very heart of Wall Street’s Ponzi-finance scam. It created profits by transforming liabilities into “cash flow” which could be sold at market. Bottom line: Factories and manufacturing were out. Toxic paper and garbage loans were in. This has crashed,however, This is the system that Obama and Geithner are trying to recreate.
Actually, #10, those who argue that BHO is destroying wealth will win the argument, shortly after the end of the first quarter, when voters start opening their 401(K) statements.
““Yes, Obama should listen to Jim Cramer, who said Bear Stearns was fine and Lehman was peachy and that everyone should buy buy buy even as the economy was palpably imploding.”
If you make predictions every day you are of course going to be wrong a lot.”
Right – but if you miss the two biggest investing stories of the decade – then what?
Hey lester, the Dow is down over 3%. How’s the crow taste?
This is a combination of the Nixon and Carter White House, with some of the Clinton-era ethical problems thrown in for good measure. They have an enemies list that is maintained and coordinated from the Oval Office along with being utterly incompentent. This is complete amatuer hour in the White House. He has done more damage to this country than any administration in, well, forever, and he’s not even 2 months into it.
wall street brought this on themselves. they really did. in so many ways
16. I said i didn’t trust the rally and now of course I remind you that I did.
“Oh, but I keep forgetting the market is only a ‘poll’ to Obama, not like it contains anyone’s college or retirement savings.”
That’s not really what he said – but my 401k manager said EXACTLY the same thing when i wanted to pull out a few months back. Should I now think he’s a dope – or hang in the market for the next 25 years as I work towards retirement?
19
The Dow peaked in Oct 2007 at around 14,000. No one is going to be blaming Obama for the one quarter of this bear market that he’s been president, and yes, they say so in polls.
Let me know if you need one.
That videoclip looks like being a notable setback for the neocomradely cause.
And, even as the fiends get stronger, Princess Neoterica suddenly starts takin’ her economics from the _New York Post_ rather than the _Wall Street Jingo_ as hitherto.
Well, we’ll see.
Happy days.
“They have an enemies list that is maintained and coordinated from the Oval Office along with being utterly incompentent. This is complete amatuer hour in the White House. ”
That’s pretty funny – not only has Obama gotten EVERYTHING he’s wanted – he’s managed to grind the republican brand to dust. Any more of an amateur and the Republicans won’t see daylight for two decades.
I can understand disagreement with this administration. But to call them amateurs as they roll over you makes you look like…
a complete amateur!
Man oh man — we are having a Troll explosion on this thread today
trolls where is that 500 points upsurge? Trolls are self-destructing.
Maybe This is about the collapse of the wall street world in its entirety to be replaced by(fill in the blanks) CHINA? as the new Master of The Universe,similiar to the way King Dollar threw over the Pound Sterling,and Wall Street replaced London after WW1
Here’s the quote: “And, you know, the stock market is sort of like a tracking poll in politics. It bobs up and down day to day, and if you spend all your time worrying about that, then you’re probably going to get the long-term strategy wrong.”
Obama
If my fishing line bobbed like Obama’s stock market observations, I would be at the bottom of Lake Superior by now.
It’s interesting to see the schadenfreude today. The financial sector not only allowed itself to be seduced by unrealistic returns on investment vehicles that no one understood, it helped elect a man as president who does not know what price/earnings rations are.
There are valuable steps that Obama and Geithner could be taking but they seem clueless. Instead, Obama has delegated his legislative agenda to Nancy Pelosi, the most radical leftist in Congress. I wonder what her husband thinks of her legislative solution to the crisis. Maybe, like Hillary Clinton taking her bonus before January 1, 1993 so she could avoid her husband’s retroactive tax increase, he used his insider information to shift his assets to gold.
WOW!! Judging by the number of trolls who are showing up to attack you Jenn, you are clearly having a powerful impact. There is an inciveness and clarity to your critiques that restores my belief in an external reality separate from the spinning of Obama and his fools in the media.
Wear the postings of the idiot trolls as a badge of achievement–they are getting really upset.
“There are valuable steps that Obama and Geithner could be taking but they seem clueless.”
I take with a grain of slat anyone who says THEy could fix the jam we’re facing.. It’s easy from the keyboard to say anything. To actually make decisions? That’s a real job…
Don’t worry. Once Obama is done destroying your 401K, your Messiah will take care of you. Obama promise you, your 1 dollar food stamp, gas ration, your universal healthcare and a degree on how your dear leader save you from evil capitalists.
31
“a man who does not know waht “price/earnings rations” are.”
I’m sure you meant to write p/e “ratios,” and it would be unfair of me to say that your slip clearly means that you are financially illiterate, right?
Now you should probably apologize to Obama for making a similar slip, dont you think?
33- And one Obama and Geithner obviously are not up too. They think coordinating attacks on private citizens like Rush with CNN is more important than actually making decisions. They will have their reward.
Geithner looks like he could not punch his way out of a paper sack.
CEO’s did not set out to destroy their companies. Most of employment comes from small business’ and they are hurting. My wife works for a local excavating company (site prep and concrete work). Last year they were over 200 employees – they are down to 50. The owner is not evil – there is no work.
Markets are markets and require both buyers and sellers. The market looks forward and knows the economic policies of Obama are inconsistant and run at cross purposes. You can not advocate cap and trade and support the US auto industry. You can not allow more strigent environmental standards in CA and support the US auto industry. You can not advocate more affordable housing for all citizens and support delinquent mortgage holders. You can not make the banks sell there assets at pennies when there is no market.
Obama’s people have to know all of this and it makes you wonder if this is the change he was looking for.
“I take with a grain of slat anyone who says THEy could fix the jam we’re facing.. It’s easy from the keyboard to say anything. To actually make decisions? That’s a real job…”
says a guy who apparently lives at his keyboard
32
“Judging by the number of trolls who are showing up”
What can I say? This is what happens when you are late to a Soros breakfast meeting. You get assigned mop up.
The contest is over. But someone has to bayonet the conservative ideas left writhing on the battlefield, lest they crawl off into the brush to heal and regroup. Sure, it’s not likely –they didn’t have much life in them to begin with — but why take the chance, you know? Best to stick every last one, just in case.
Trolls are blinded by their faith of Obama’s Hope and Change.
Obama, stock market guru, was advising us all to put money into the market yesterday. Wonder if he had GM in mind?
Jennifer, you have been infested by Obama’s Welfare Natiion.
You think these leeches care that the wealth of this nation has dropped by the trillions since Election day. Investments, Producing, Wealth-creation, all foreign concepts and the ignorance is displayed in their comments.
They will not notice until the check stops coming in the mail. Then they will be up in arms that the “rich” aren’t paying their share of taxes so they can get their monthly check.
Cramer was right about Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers. They were not insolvent, but were taken down by hedge-fund manipulation and rampant short selling. Why neither GWB nor Obama have seen the need to stop the short sellers from burning down the markets is real question.
Hey, JohnR223, Geithner does have other pressing business: like teaming up with Rangel to save us from tax cheats, for instance, or re-affirming prospects for the further destruction of auto, energy, health, and housing just on the off chance that whatever “rescue” plan he finally comes up with finally puts a stop to the financial sector’s hemorrhaging.
As others have pointed out, the need for “stress tests” tends to confirm that no one knows where we really are. In the meantime, the Obama Administration itself is turning into the biggest stress test of all. The big essay question on the test: “What happens if a new administration imposes chaos and dread on an international financial and political system already under critical pressure?” As you gather your notes, you can probably begin with the little bug (usually red) at the corner of your cable news show.
How we got here today: Via the Community Reinvestment Act, groups such as ACORN forced banks to make mortgage loans to “underserved” populations. There was a reason they were underserved populations! They had no job, no income, no assets! None the less, democrats in congress backed ACORN up, and voila! Now all the crackheads are defaulting on their loans, the banks that were forced to make their loans are folding and the economy is crashing. ALL BECAUSE OF DEMOCRATS!!! Oh yeah, with obama’s new health care, most people over 60 will get no health care and die before they see retirement. Young people are going to be footing the tax bill for obama’s porkulus spending. I feel sorry for eldery and young Conservative, NOT for elderly and young democrats! They brought this mess on that all of us must endure!!
This administration has a congenital Dow Down syndrome…
44- Geithner and Rangel teaming up to save us from tax cheats. Well, I must say they are uniquely qualified for the job!
Obama promised Geithner would present his bank bail out plan weeks ago, today it remains nowhere to be seen, as the economy continues to go out of control. Hope and change.
Dow down further.
Search dogs found the rubberized dead cat in Bill Ayers’ garage.
This is what happens when a Socialist, envious, small man named Obama is elected president. Hopefully we will survive his wealth-destroying policies.
“Via the Community Reinvestment Act, groups such as ACORN forced banks to make mortgage loans to “underserved” populations”
Right – the “community organizers” just put a gun to the bankers’ heads – make the loans or else…
or else what? This lie has been debunked so frequently that I’m surprised anyone still makes it…. Most of the bad loans were made by PRIVATE lenders who were not beholden to the CRA -
“None the less, democrats in congress backed ACORN up, and voila!…” Funny the Democrats were in the monority for the bulk years of bad lending – 2002-2004 – but the republicans are off the hook. This reminds me of something else…
Oh yeah, on 9.11.2001, Republicans held the White House and the congress – but it was Clinton’s fault…
Do you guys take responsibility for ANYTHING?
“Now all the crackheads are defaulting on their loans, the banks that were forced to make their loans are folding and the economy is crashing.”
I read yesterday that 1 in 5 mortgages are “underwater…’ That’s a LOT of crack heads…
44-” Geithner and Rangel teaming up to save us from tax cheats. Well, I must say they are uniquely qualified for the job!”
And, Barney Frank, on CNN now talking about prosecuting people responsible for this crisis! These clowns manage to say these things with straight faces! I am picturing Barney in an orange jumpsuit, with big numbers across the front.
I love the demonization of business by the so-called great uniter. Hey, the government, especially under Obama, is skum and should be put in jail for the fraud they have and are hoisting upon this nation. The more the government under Obama, filled with lobbyests and earmarks and tax cheats and Chicago thugs and pay-offs to all his political cronies and union bosses and corrupt ACORN vote scammers and fraudulent Fannie Mae executives who tanked the housing market and then left with multi-millions to join the Obama team, I could go on and on. The more those skirts are lifted, the more scarier it gets. Obama is our own version of Baby Doc or Hugo Chavez and he is turning America into just another third-rate collective state. Where the Party bosses get fat and happy and have big expensive parties with $100 a pound steaks every Wednesday night in the White House while the economy tanks under their onerous policies. And brags to the press that “I like being president and I’m good at it?” And says I don’t care about the day to day gyrations of the stock market. And the rest of us eat cake and watch our 401Ks tank. How arrogant and ignorant is our brave new small-minded and full-of himself little man President. How wonderful is his Amerika.
And yes, how strange to hear all the trolls chortling with glee as people’s fortunes and retirements and college funds evaporate. We can only conclude that they don’t have 401Ks, or pensions, or jobs, for that matter. Do they ALL work for the govmt?
The banks and Wall Street have indeed behaved venally and incompetently. As bad as they are, our current congress and administration is raising the bar on incompetence and outright political pandering. They couldn’t run a hot dog stand in Manhattan and these are the guys who are going to fix this?
Wow, what a win-win situation.
48
You read, right? A Chinese stimulus plan was rumored yesterday, sending the Dow up. That plan didn’t materialize, triggering today’s sell-off.
No matter what Obama does or says, the near term outlook is bleak.
“The U.S. recession is dragging down almost every industry in almost every part of the country and businesses do not expect conditions to improve until late this year at the earliest, according to a Federal Reserve report released yesterday” — WaPo
You guys can try to blame Obama for the current situation, but the public doesn’t.
In bi-polar, black-white, up-down, Republican-Democrat world, there apparently are just two alternatives, the greedy bogus financial Wall Street and the caring, compassionate, brilliant, high tax, bankrupt Pennsylvania Avenue. That’s it, there apparently is no third way, no clear, easy-to-understand financial sector across town from a government that pays its way with current tax receipts and doesn’t promise a risk-free life for its citizens in exchange for votes. The best part is, they’re both run by the same group of people!
This is Obama’s modus operandi. Not to govern by sensible ideas but to govern against strawmen and symbols. That he attacks business and wealth is certainly a part of his ideological makeup. But he also attacks Wall Street and bankers to stoke class resentments and most fundamentally to avoid defending his agenda on the merits. And critically missing from the “Blame Wall Street” rhetoric is an honest assessment of how the Federal Government itself was responsible for the carnage. And, of course, when you attack Wall Street as a matter of policy “main street” pays the price, a point belatedly realized after all the gris for the political mill.
@55 – “You guys can try to blame Obama for the current situation, but the public doesn’t.”
Life’s eventime comes much too soon,
You’ll live at least a honeymoon!
Fun article in the NY Times today laying out the rules for mortgage bailouts. Your 4-unit building qualifies, if you live in one unit, paid up to $1.3 m, and have a monthly payment that is 31% of your income. So the rest of us will be subsidizing others’ investment property–as long as they went out on a limb to buy it.
57
“And critically missing from the “Blame Wall Street” rhetoric is an honest assessment of how the Federal Government itself was responsible for the carnage.” –ian
Sure, as Alan Greenspan has testified, he and the Bush administration made the mistake of believing that if they eased regulations on banks that the banks would not take risks that would threaten their own survival. So, for example, the SEC eased its capital ratio restrictions and allowed banks to leverage up (on complex derivatives that Republicans had a decade earlier exempted from regulation.) Greenspan admitted that his theory of the free market failed and precipitated the economic meltdown.
But that is not missing from Obama’s candid assessment, it is only missing from the mindless argument of the right that a handful of loans to minorities by Fannie and Freddie brought down the entire global economy. Is is any wonder your party wagon is broken down on the side of the road?
Gasparino gets part of it (“we get fresh threats of higher taxes on the most productive people in the country and a bank bailout that remains a mystery. Plus policy measures that contradict each other..”), but someone should remind him that Keynesian dogma (“….expand the deficit (as we should during a downturn)…”) is a dog that don’t hunt no mo’. And that putting his own words into the mouth of some anonymous if not mythical “top Wall Street exec” isn’t exactly how honest reporting works.
As for Rubin, she gets points for mentioning Santelli, but naming pump-and-dump felon Cramer negates them. Worst, however, is her breathtaking naivete: “… a president whose main task is our economic revival.” First, economic revival is no task at all of the Executive Branch, whose job is to enforce the country’s laws. Second, even if the economy were any part of the president’s job, the Magic Mulatto Marxist Messiah Mutt apparently didn’t get the memo. Third, if the preservation of American prosperity were his aim, he could do it in three simple steps: Eliminating the capital-gains tax, halving the personal income-tax rate, and preserving the Bush Administration’s across-the-board (NOT just “for the wealthy”) tax cuts.
Instead, the Mutt and his controllers have declared all-out war on productive America, and the obvious conclusion is that their purpose is nothing less than the destruction of a free, independent, prosperous citizenry and their enslavement to a monolithic totalitarian regime that doles out food, water, shelter, fuel, transportation, medical care, and entertainment at the whim of the dictator, his stooges, and the thoroughly evil interests behind them.
#51
Barney Frank would have lots of cute boyfriends in prison too.
Agreed #61. Before you know the Messiah is lagging behind Chavez, promise of a 21st century style of socialism.
Obama still yapping on TV about universal healthcare that nobody wants to pay. Trolls should be ask to sacrifice. No market confidence to the Obama administration.
“WOW!! Judging by the number of trolls who are showing up to attack you Jenn, you are clearly having a powerful impact.”
we come here every day. and no one has claimed anything about 0bama or the stock market.
“Trolls are blinded by their faith of Obama’s Hope and Change”
voted for ron paul but thanks for playing
I hate to give Obama and his Marxist domestic policies any credit, but he is right about executive pay limits, if nothing else. Most executives plunder their companies rapaciously at the expense of company and stockholder profits.
Jeffrey Immelt, the current CEO of GE is a case in point. That incompetent, greedy lowlife is enriching himself by driving one of the world’s most productive companies into the ground. (The left side of the ground at that.) Furthermore, he is by no means a boardroom anomaly. Even CEOs of well run companies bite oversized chunks out of their profit margins while paying their employees far less money in adjusted dollar value than they did 30 and 40 years ago. Corruption is the norm, and they donate much more money to the Democrat party than they do the Republican party.
Partisan hokum is still hokum, no matter which side spouts it. When conservatives claim that all business executives earn their bloated compensation packages, they’re being dishonest or just plain stupid. Business leaders tend to be every bit the greedy fat-cats that leftists describe them as. So are their government counterparts in Congress, although they’re seldom identified as such. Both groups enable each other at the expense of the rest of us.
Just because I’m willing to tell the truth about corporate greed doesn’t mean I sleep with a copy of “Das Kapital” under my pillow. If anybody wants to dispute what I wrote, go right ahead, but spare me any nonsense about criticism of specific business practices being a criticism of capitalism itself.
And any moonbat who wants to kiss up to me as a fellow socialist knows which part of me he can kiss.
“But that is not missing from Obama’s candid assessment, it is only missing from the mindless argument of the right that a handful of loans to minorities by Fannie and Freddie brought down the entire global economy. Is is any wonder your party wagon is broken down on the side of the road?”
Not a handful of loans :
“Edward Pinto, a former chief credit officer at Fannie Mae, told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that the mortgage giants, which have been taken over by the government, now guarantee or hold 10.5 million nonprime loans worth $1.6 trillion — one in three of all subprime loans, and nearly two in three of all so-called Alt-A loans, often called “liar loans.”
Such loans now make up 34 percent of the total single-family mortgage portfolios at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, a level that will link them to eight million, or one in six, foreclosures in coming years, Pinto said. The nonprime loans, the riskiest made in 2007, “have turned the American dream of homeownership into the American nightmare of foreclosure,” he said.”
Yes, Greenspan bears some of the blame, as does the SEC – which is bi-partisan, by the way- and Bob Rubin was the loudest voice against regulation of Derivatives. But Fannie and Freddie were a huge factor.
Why disown Obama now? Your Messiah needs your sacrifice more than ever.
Greetings comrades! How goes the War on Prosperity?
#60,
“Sure, as Alan Greenspan has testified, he and the Bush administration made the mistake of believing that if they eased regulations on banks that the banks would not take risks that would threaten their own survival.–the mindless argument of the right that a handful of loans to minorities by Fannie and Freddie brought down the entire global economy.”
Was it an unreasonable to assume that “banks would not take risks that would threaten their own survival”? Especially without the benefit of hindsight?
Handful of loans?
Bad Mortgages Taking Down Good Loans, Too
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94921465
“Foreclosures in risky subprime mortgages have soared, but they are only a small part of the market. In fact, despite economic pain and uncertainty, the vast majority of Americans continue to make their mortgage payments.
… fewer than 3 percent of American homes with mortgages are in foreclosure.
The problem is this: Those bad loans are having an outsize impact on the financial world. They are mixed with good loans in securities that are crippling investment banks. No one wants the securities, even though not all of the loans are bad.”
The economic downturn we are experiencing does have multiple causal factors. Why are you joining those who focus on but one factor while ignoring the rest? It’s more than a bit ironic for you to engage in the hypocrisy of reprimanding conservatives for the very thing you are doing.
“Intellectual honesty is the coin necessary to gain the right to sit at the table of debate.”
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.” – Daniel Patrick Moynahan …
#65,
Jack welch put $300B on GE’s books,and turned GE into a bank. Immelt added another $200B in debt,and was there as the Bank melted down,so save some of the vitriol for Welch.
the idea that you guys can possibly undo the damage I caused is hilarious. I meant to destroy the country and I did. it’s very mean of you to try to take that away from me.
#69
11% of mortgages are troubled
CNNMoney.com – 1 hour ago
By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — More than 11% of all mortgages are either delinquent or in foreclosure, according to an industry report released Thursday.
“Was it an unreasonable to assume that “banks would not take risks that would threaten their own survival”?
If you have full faith in Murphy’s Laws,the answer is yes.
What else should we have expected when we elected the Senator from Alinsky/Weather Undergound to lead us out of an economic mess. Maybe we could live with a diminished lifestyle, or maybe a dhimmi lifestyle. This guy’s policies promise that we will have both.
As I’ve always said, a fraud is always found out.
The fraud is slowly but surely being found out.
#65
Various mutual funds own much of the stock of the largest corporations in the country. The fund managers don’t care about dividends or management compensation because stock prices are what determines fund success. Interlocking board directorates and compensation committees are feeding each other money that should be paid in dividends. Corporations are buying back their own stock, inflating the price, while executives are exercising lucrative options that are part of their compensation. The answer to this situation is stockholders taking control of the company they own by forming groups to assemble proxies and demand management responsibility. It isn’t that much different than the citizenry taking control of their government.
#66
Thanks for the substantive response. Let’s stipulate to your numbers, for the sake of argument. So Fannie and Freddie, worst case, will be linked to 17% of all bad loans. For companies that were a central player in the mortgage industry, that’s not a very impressive number. It certainly means that 83% of bad loans had nothing to with Fannie/Freddie. So what did? We are back to deregulation of the banks, deregulation of derivatives, Wall Street/mortgage industry greed, and unsophisticated or irresponsible consumers. The free market turned out to be very expensive for the American taxpayer.
Minor quibble: The decision to change the bank ratios was made by SEC Chairman Chris Cox, Republican.
Employers of the world, you have nothing to lose but your money and freedom.
“There are valuable steps that Obama and Geithner could be taking but they seem clueless.”
I take with a grain of slat anyone who says THEy could fix the jam we’re facing
I take with a grain of slat anyone who criticizes a comment that the other party didn’t make. Do you get the difference between “valuable steps” and “The could fix the jam”?
Swampfox, I suppose you never bought a new keyboard and had a key stick. Obama SAID it on TV. Nice of you to stick up for him. I guess that means you’re not in the market.
To those that continue to bash the bankers and lift Obama up as the ‘solution’: At some point you will choke on this Koolaid and it will be sooner than you think. The Democrats in Washington had a heavy hand in creating the housing meltdown with their feckless disregard for Fannie/Freddy and their outright refusal to create any regulatory reform to put them in check. Now, the same party wants to demonize Wall Street and the Financial industry. The economy is never going to recover by stealing from the rich and giving to the unproductive. Never. Everytime Obama or Geithner open their mouths, the stock market (which, by the way, is NOT a tracking poll) takes another dive and so do the 401k’s and retirement plans of millions of Americans. If you want to support Obama, then support him – but at least get a grip on the facts and stop with the worship. It is sickening. Really.
#76, simple question. If more government is your answer (and I no doubt believe you think it is), why doesn’t the Street agree with you? And I think you’re being pretty naive about Fannie and Freddie’s involvement in all of this. Certainly not all of the loans were held by Fannie and Freddie, but the bulk of them were and on top of this they had an implicit turned explicit guarantee by the US government that would give them a bailout if anything negative were to happen.
And the only reason the market turned out to be expensive for the taxpayer was because Bush and Obama decided to get involved in it. Now we’re on the hook for billions with nothing to show for it.
“To those that continue to bash the bankers and lift Obama up as the ’solution’: At some point you will choke on this Koolaid and it will be sooner than you think.”
most people are bashing obama AND the bankers. why would I side with wall street? I’m an investor I KNOW they are crooks and I Know washington is full of crooks as well.
The number of delinquent loans rises as people lose their jobs. The original fraction that were liar loans was lower. There are some amazing stories; a school bus driver with an $800,000 home, a cleaning lady with three condos, two bought on spec with a HELOC on her appreciated condo. What happened was that NO ONE expected to service these loans. All the mortgage brokers were living on fees. The loans were sold as soon as the escrow closed. Some of them had 90 day chargeback terms so the broker would make sure the debtor made the first three payments. After that, it was someone else’s problem.
As for putting a gun to a banker’s head, the threat was an ACORN lawsuit if the banks didn’t have enough Alt-A loans made to the “right” group. The final blowout was the derivatives and Bush and Greenspan share some blame with Frank and Dodd for not reining in the Fed and raising rates. They tried to rein in Fannie Mae and got threatened with a filibuster. Too bad they didn’t push it more but no one, to their discredit, saw this coming.
Now, the question is what to do. Paulson had an idea and it probably helped. What is going on now, especially the threatening of the investor class and the $250,000 per year professional and small business class, is making it worse. A lot worse. One thing it is doing, and would be a good thing in other times, is making everyone save and hunker down. Have you seen the prices of cruises and hotel stays now ? That means thousands of jobs lost. Even people who have jobs and money are concentrating on paying down debt and canceling consumption. We should have been doing this for the past ten years but right now it is devastating parts of the economy, big parts. And those jobs being lost are low paying jobs.
I don’t think this is why those people voted for Obama. You may preen at his poll ratings now but wait six months.
INDU 3:42 O 6874.01 C 6875.84
L +6568.56-307.28 PC -4.47 H 6874.01 L 6549.92
FL YH 13136.69 YL 6705.63
NM DJ INDU AVERAGE
#82 says, “The number of delinquent loans rises as people lose their jobs. The original fraction that were liar loans was lower. There are some amazing stories; a school bus driver with an $800,000 home, a cleaning lady with three condos, two bought on spec with a HELOC on her appreciated condo. What happened was that NO ONE expected to service these loans. All the mortgage brokers were living on fees. The loans were sold as soon as the escrow closed. Some of them had 90 day chargeback terms so the broker would make sure the debtor made the first three payments. After that, it was someone else’s problem.”
So…the bus driver should’ve been in an $800,000 home, the cleaning lady bought three condos and the mortgage broker was supposed to be responsible for that? Talk about irresponsiblity.
78 “Swampfox, I suppose you never bought a new keyboard and had a key stick. Obama SAID it on TV. Nice of you to stick up for him. I guess that means you’re not in the market.”
Hey, look, I make typos all the time. I also misspeak. People speak in first drafts. I’m not going to take one gaff, written or spoken, and try to paint someone as ignorant because of it. But since you bring it up, you are more responsible for your error than he was. You have the opportunity to review your writing before you hit enter. You criticized Obama for exactly the same sort of error you made. That is on you.
I am in the market and I have worked on Wall Street.
Dow down almost 300 and closes below 6600. Citi breaks the buck. Go Obama – we’ll all be eligable for your paltry tax cuts at the rate this is going. Pretty soon, I won’t have to worry about having to pay higher taxes, because I won’t have any money left to tax. This sucks.
#72,
No doubt ‘troubled’ loans have risen since the NPR article I cited. Which only reinforces the point I made. Citing Murphy’s law is facile but grossly insufficient to the assertion that it IS reasonable to assume that bankers would not knowingly ‘cut their own throats’ nor take inordinate risks.
Greenspan in particular can be faulted and the Bush administration (the President relies upon his financial advisers) a bit less so for not understanding that derivatives, etc. had gotten so complex that bankers didn’t understand them and relied upon consultative economic ‘guru’s’ who assured them that ‘nothing could go wrong’. Guru’s whose continued revenue depended upon banker’s continued reliance upon their ‘expertise’.
All of this is the result of bankers, the financial industry, retirement and mutual funds and most of all the public…demanding that the gravy train of good returns continue. In spite of the fact that the US economy has relied upon smoke and mirrors for much of it’s growth since the early 90′s.
86
That’s capitalism. You aren’t guaranteed that asset prices will increase, particularly over the short term. You made the bet that your investments were worth more than you paid for them. It’s not Obama’s job to eliminate the risk from the free market, right? He didn’t tell you to forego the CD or the money market, right? I thought conservatives were about personal responsibility. Where do I go to find a conservative, these days? The Atlantic?
Swampfox, I am responsible. After all, unless my business really starts to suck even more than it is now, I’ll be responsible for your healthcare, your tax break, your mortgage and your food stamps. Then, after you, and all the others like you, are finished sucking me, and others like me, completely dry, we can join you by taking our places in the Obama Welfare State line.
#88, one wishes that people like you and Obama and all the other liberals and George Bush and Hank Paulson and all the other idiots that call themselves “conservatives” but jettisoned those beliefs to “save the free market system” would’ve had this type of view when it came to housing.
#64, lester: “voted for ron paul “
… who was not on the ballot.
You, btw, claimed before to be a Bob Barr>/i> supporter…
Barr was on the ballot; maybe you ought to stick to that version.
Of course it is hard to remember all your previous claims with
the hard-working life you lead: you say, speaking for
all the trolls: “we come here every day”.
A troll patrol. Sent here, no doubt, by Ron Paul – or is it Bob Barr?
So…the bus driver should’ve been in an $800,000 home, the cleaning lady bought three condos and the mortgage broker was supposed to be responsible for that? Talk about irresponsiblity.
Sure. The point was that NO ONE was worried about anyone paying back these loans. It was all based on fees.
Swampfox thinks the president gets a pass on “typos” that drive the market to historic lows. And you worked on Wall Street. I wonder what at.
92 responses and counting. As someone put it recently, I’m sensing a disturbance in the Obama Force. Although that could have been the market tanking again.
#92 says, “Sure. The point was that NO ONE was worried about anyone paying back these loans. It was all based on fees.”
I would think that the BANK made the loan on the assumption that they would be able to pay the loans back.
me-ologist- I wrote in ron paul. swear to god. and donated to the campaign on more than one occasion
OK – Lester – that is good enough for me. The bigger problem, however, no matter the complicity of both parties in getting the mortgage mess rolling, is that the current administration has lost the faith of the investor class and is allowing incredibly damaging policies to be instituted that can be called nothing more than an assault on the private accumulation of wealth. Of course, they will exempt themselves from this assault.
The stupid handling of the Russian/Iran missile defense gambit, the Hamas bailout, and the idiocy of the snubbing of our oldest ally, just speaks to complete incompetance. The deer in the headlight look of Geithner the man we had to have at Treasury, even though he is a tax cheat, the terrible vetting process, and the thoughts by the Obamacons that their leaders approval ratings are skyhigh (note to you folks – GWB’s numbers were higher and his spread greater than your messiah at about the same time) all gives the feel of an administration that either is clueless, or thinks they can do whatever they want with no consequence. Either one means the fall is coming. The problem is just how many of us get pulled over in the meantime.
Your vote for Ron Paul is null and void. Deserting Obama now?
#76: Yes, there is certainly blame to go around. But for Obama and Dems to pin it solely on Bush is extremely dishonest. Rubin – and Greenspan- fought regulation of derivatives under Clinton. Glass Steagal repeal, also Clinton era. There are numerous clips on youtube of Frank, Waters, Dodd, various Dems pushing back hard against Fannie/ Freddie regulation.
Re: minor quibble : I read – don’t have link- of an SEC meeting where various Wall Street honchos asked to lift the leverage regulation – and Hank Paulsen was the Goldman representative interestingly – and the board – there is a board, not just Cox – voted in favor. The board is evenly split Dem/Repub. So blame is shared.
But Cox did lift the uptick rule, which enabled the bear run on Bear, and then Lehman, which started the dominos tumbling. McCain was right about him.
Is the lester who is commenting here the same lester that predicted a 500 Dow pop a couple of weeks ago? How did that prediction come out?
Making predictions is risky–the gain of credibility is great when you are right, but the loss of credibility is also great when you are wrong.
“The bigger problem, however, no matter the complicity of both parties in getting the mortgage mess rolling, is that the current administration has lost the faith of the investor class and is allowing incredibly damaging policies to be instituted that can be called nothing more than an assault on the private accumulation of wealth.”
I agree 100%
98- ehh. the uptick rule should be brought back but it was fundamentals that sunk those companies