It is not simply that Iran is moving steadily toward membership in the nuclear powers’ club. It is not only that the UN is plotting to carve up Israel. No, these are symptoms of an underlying problem: the U.S.’s retreat from the Middle East and the decline of American influence. There are other signs as well.
The administration has been demonstrating abject weakness with Syria. It mounted no meaningful response to violations of UN Resolution 1701. It has attempted to confirm and redeploy an ambassador to Damascus. Back in March, Elliott Abrams reeled off the list of “engagement” moves that bore an uncanny resemblance to appeasement:
* High level envoys have been sent to Damascus: Under Secretary of State William Burns visited Syria in mid-February, the highest ranking U.S. official to set foot there in more than five years, and Middle East envoy George Mitchell has visited three times. High-ranking Central Command officers have been sent to Damascus to discuss cooperation against terrorism.
* President Obama has now nominated an ambassador to Damascus, the first since Margaret Scobey was withdrawn in 2005 after the murder of former prime minister Rafik al-Hariri in Lebanon (which was widely blamed on the Assad regime).
* The president has also removed the American block to Syria’s attempt to join the World Trade Organization.
* The United States has eased some export licenses for Syria, mostly in the area of aircraft.
* Syria’s deputy foreign minister was invited to Washington in October, the first such visit in several years.
So how’s that working out? As we’ve seen, Bashar al-Assad has moved ever closer to Iran (the opposite reaction intended by the Obama team), even as he displays his contempt for the U.S.:
Syria’s president has accused the United States of sowing chaos overseas, snubbing Washington’s efforts to improve ties with Damascus. Syrian President Bashar Assad told Al-Hayat newspaper in an interview published Tuesday that the US “created chaos in every place it entered.” “Is Afghanistan stable? Is Somalia stable? Did they bring stability to Lebanon in 1983?” Assad asked, referring to US intervention in Lebanon’s 15-year civil war that ended in 1990.
To this, the U.S. replied, “Are not.” In diplomatic terms: “Spokesman P.J. Crowley charged that Syria is destabilizing Lebanon by supplying arms to militants and issuing arrest warrants for Lebanese officials. ‘These activities by Syria directly undermine Lebanon’s sovereignty and directly undermine Syria’s stated commitments to Lebanon’s sovereignty and independence,’ Crowley said. ‘We believe we’re playing a constructive role in the region, and we believe that Syria is not.”’ This “tough retort,” according to the press account, is what passes for the administration’s Syria policy.
And speaking of Lebanon:
The Obama administration, already struggling to stave off a collapse of Middle East peace talks, is increasingly alarmed by unrest in Lebanon, whose own fragile peace is being threatened by militant opponents of a politically charged investigation into the killing in 2005 of a former Lebanese leader.
With an international tribunal expected to hand down indictments in the assassination of the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, in the coming months, the Hezbollah militia is maneuvering furiously to halt the investigation, or failing that, to unseat Lebanon’s government, which backs it.
The New York Times helpfully offers that the Obama team has, contrary to appearances, really (honestly!) not been obsessed with the failed Palestinian-Israeli non-peace talks. It has instead been focused on this looming crisis:
The administration’s worries go beyond Lebanon itself, and help explain why it, and not the stalled Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, has been the major preoccupation of American foreign policy officials for the last few weeks. The diplomatic activity follows a splashy tour of Lebanon by Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who got an ecstatic reception from members of Hezbollah, the Shiite movement financed and equipped by Iran. American officials were particularly struck by Mr. Ahmadinejad’s trip to a small town a few miles north of the Israeli border, where he called for the “Zionists to be wiped out.”
With unintended comedic effect, the dispatched U.S. envoy, Jeffrey D. Feltman, proclaims: “You don’t want the perception of a vacuum. … You don’t want the perception that Ahmadinejad is the only game in town.” Umm, it’s a little late for that realization, isn’t it? And if that’s the problem, then throwing ourselves at the mullahs’ feet in order to restart the charade of nuclear talks is hardly going to improve matters.
Even if … and that’s a big if … Joe the Plumber is not racist, you can just tell he’s a raging homophobe. My vote stays with Obama.
Karl Rove has made a deal with the devil. That explains everything. Joe the plumber is merely a cog in the great conspiracy.
John, you left out the part about the grassy knoll.
As Jennifer writes, Joe’s made to order for McCain. The poor guy’s media travails help McCain in a big, big way.
I thought the point was how Obama choose to answer the question and how this reflects on his actual economic policies should he be elected. That being the case, who care if “Joe the Plumber” is the biggest scumbag in human history. Obama is the one running for president after all.
Proving that Chicago is Obama country, you could not even count the number of times I heard yesterday. What is with this plumber, he’s not even a reeeeeeal plumber.
Boy, I guess when not clinging to guns and religion, the last refuge of the scoundrel is to plumb.
This is a tempest in a teapot to everyone except geeks like us (I count myself among the group and use the term teasingly) who are following the election extremely closely. On the whole, Joe the Plumber is a blip on most radar screens — more so than Bill Ayers, but still a blip.
It’s been said many times but it’s worth repeating. If the MSM investigated Obama with 1/20th the zeal it has Joe the public would be a lot more informed about this racist thug we are about to elect president.
“On the whole, Joe the Plumber is a blip on most radar screens — more so than Bill Ayers, but still a blip.”
And he’ll stay that way unless McCain focuses more attention on Obama’s “spread the wealth” comment.
I wonder how many Obama voters even know that their messiah smokes cigarettes. My wife, who has followed this race closer than any other in her life, and has come down on the side of McCain did not know that when I told her last night. She thought I was making it up, asking me why she hadn’t heard that until now.
I said, this is a man who will not release his medical or academic records, or any records from his time in Illinois politics. He has suppressed all information about him through his information ministry otherwise known as the MSM.
“On the whole, Joe the Plumber is a blip on most radar screens”
Nothing could be further from the truth. Many middle of the road voters identify with Joe the plumber.
They are appalled by the MSP (main street propagandists) attacks on this guy.
The sad truth is that Joe has given 10 times more interviews to the press than Sarah Palin has. That’s probably because he’s more qualified to be Veep than she is. And he’s probably got 80 IQ points on her. I’m still thinkin Palin-Plumber 2012 would be a dream ticket. The two smartest McCain supporters left in America. The hope of the conservative movement. A quantum leap forward from the likes of Wolfowitz and Cheney.
Joe the Plumber? That is just hysterical. McCain’s whole campaign is plugged up with bad negative ads, zig-zagging ideas, and a lack of strong message. Drano ain’t helping! Call in the everyday American, Joe the Plumber. I just love it, you can’t write this stuff.
Hopefully, McCain’s campaign will get the water flowing, just in time for November 5th. Remember, McCain said “Fight with me!” I guess it takes a blue-collar guy to stand up to the media/political elite. Go Joe!
Should we start vetting the “average Joe’s and Jane’s” that appear in Obama’s campaign commercials with the same veracity with which the MSM has gone after Joe?
Not unless we want to be labeled homo-racial-fear-mongering distractionists.
“On the whole, Joe the Plumber is a blip on most radar screens — more so than Bill Ayers, but still a blip.”
I disagree, the thuggish Obama campaign has made darned sure that he stays in the headlines with their over-the-top, cartoonish character assasination of this common man. People do know who he is, and just because the latte liberals who read the NYT because they are oh, so informed, think that a boorish bald man who plumbs is beneath them, and by the way he is not even a real plumber, does not mean the rest of the country does.
They underestimate the appeal of Sarah Palin and then attack her. They too will understimate Joe the Plumber and their attacks will do them no favors. Each time they attack their information ministry will publish those attacks, keeping Joe in the news even longer. He is a more effective spokesman on the ills of the Obama socialist spread the wealth plan than McCain, so I say let them keep attacking.
By the way… has anyone noticed that since the appearance of Joe the plumber, the trolls are back???
The Obama wire must have sent out a directive.
“Joe the Plumber is a blip on most radar screens ”
Right, that’s why Obama’s dumpster divers are working overtime, and why Joe the Dopey Senator and Obama himself are sneering about Joe to any MSP progagandist who will listen.
By the way… has anyone noticed that since the appearance of Joe the plumber, the trolls are back???
The Obama wire must have sent out a directive.
Yeah, I had some co-workers “gettin all up in my face” about Joe the Plumber yesterday. They were really upset that he is not even a real plumber.
We are all Joe the Plumber. Americans are ambitions and hopeful. We believe in this country and the success that we can achieve here. Joe wants to own a business and doesn’t see why Obama should arbitrarily make $250,000 the cut your head off point for small businesses. Joe understands that $250,000 is purely arbitrary (especially if its not inflation adjusted over time) and reasons well that the One once elected may say that there are too much wealth above $100,000. Shoot, the One already voted in Congress to raise taxes on those making as little as $42,000 a year. So Joe the Plumber is a rallying cry to all those in the Red states that have been flirting with voting for change. Do they know the change Obama is selling? I think Joe the Plumber helped crystallize that change and I think those who were flirting will come back home to the GOP.
Joe’s a dreamer (like many American’s were and are) concerned about his future. He disagrees with Senator Obama’s policies. Joe had the guts to stand up and advocate for his position. And now he’s investigated, ridiculed and generally eviscerated by the Obama campaign and the media. So the message is essentially, “Shut up stupid. Get back in line.” If Senator Obama can’t make an effective argument to a citizen in the street how is he going to handle the likes of Putin, Chavez and Ahmadinejad?
By the way, don’t forget that destroying Joe the Plumber is only *part* of what these little fascists are doing. Joe’s an object lesson – don’t speak out against the Dear Leader unless you want the same thing to happen to you. Shut up and obey your betters.
Joe the Plumber, October Surprise. Thank heaven for our alert media, who are so assiduously defending us from his assault on our nation.
Apparently the guy, who never said he makes $250K a year but only that he would like to, is a single father, has a lien of $1182 on him (for back taxes, it seems), has had the plumber’s union declare that he is not licensed to practice outside his township (gasp), and dares to go by his middle name instead of his first name (Samuel).
How any of this might prejudice Joe’s reputation with normal people is not clear. Normal people might say, “Pay your taxes, Joe,” but would not consider him ineligible to ask tough questions based on anything that has been revealed about him.
But it is absolutely hilarious to see the automatons of the left-wing blogosphere salivate on cue, and call him a racist and a liar. Blessings, Joe. This too shall pass.
He has been an apprentice plumber since 2003. It is being emphasized that he didn’t finish the apprenticeship but, according to some local people who have posted on this story, his boss is the one who is supposed to file the papers. Maybe the boss delayed so he could pay Joe a lower salary. Anyway, this story is going to hurt Obama badly, mostly because of the thuggish response by his people. More on the story is here.
Wait until the McCain camps rolls out Bill the Carpenter and Hazel the Hairdresser. Obama will have no option but reply with Kareem the Community Organizer and Dudley the Ivy League dean of affirmative action compliance.
Yeah, I had some co-workers “gettin all up in my face” about Joe the Plumber yesterday. They were really upset that he is not even a real plumber.
Same here. I just ask them one question. “Do you think Obama knew he wasn’t a real plumber and therefore gave him an answer from Karl Marx?”
You left out Krusty the Internet Troll.
Well Joe the plummer must be “killed” for the greater good. The proles have always been the stepping stones to support the “enlightened” on their way to greater power. Joe’s going to be audited for probably the rest of his natural life or maybe he can be re-educated and come to see the light.
I had no idea so many people cared about the intricacies of licensing plumbers in Ohio.
The most telling part of the Joe the Plumber affair is its illustration of Obama’s inability to take a punch. Did you see the sneering sense of contempt he showed while mocking Joe yesterday?
When it’s been borderline illegal–sometimes literally, due to affirmative action–to say anything but “You’re the best, Barry” your entire life, including during your run for president, it’s probably a shock when a mere prole stands up to you.
Obama thought he could waltz into the White House. Hey go to the Drudgereport and check out McCain’s speech defending Joe the Plumber. Magnificent! This race is turning! Momentum is going to McCain, the stock market is up, Buffet says buy American! We are coming back!
The shamelessness of the left never ceases to amaze — instead of focusing on the question, and the answer, they focus rather on a perfectly innocent young guy and all the possible dirt they can dig up on him.
Leftists have plenty of skeletons in their closets; notice how we couldn’t care less about how many of them you have? We care about what you do, hence Obama’s answer exercises us, while Joe the Plumber’s tax lien animates you.
You have only McCain to blame. He held up Joe time and again as exactly the sort of American who would be hurt by Obama’s policies. And Joe played along, ate it up. Only thing was, Joe would benefit from Obama’s tax plan and wasn’t exactly as he portrayed himself. Since he’s such an important figure on the national stage, it’s the responsibility of journalists to answer the question: How much credibility should the public give this guy? Turns out, not much.
It’s also hilarious how you paint a change in the top tax rate of less than 4 points — back merely to pre-Bush levels– as Marxist. What a bunch of clowns.
How ’bout that Colin Powell, huh? That’s gotta sting.
Hey trolls!
What did Obama mean when he said it’s good to spread the wealth?
“How ’bout that Colin Powell, huh? That’s gotta sting.”
Yeah, he’s the GOP’s favorite guy, and always has been. But, Chuck, how’s it feel to be relying on the endorsement of a guy who, for the last six years, you hippies have been swearing lied us into a war for oil?
Powell can go on ahead and do the dirt, because it doesn’t matter. Momentum is strongly moving to McCain and Powell will only play to those already in the Obama camp. How does Powell impact all the Joe the Plumbers out there who realize that Obama and Dems are out to spread the wealth around?
The press and Democrats going after Joe the plumber in this fashion while ignoring the background of Baroque Obozo is what is euphemistically known as ‘straining at gnats and swallowing elephants’
1. Should the issue be what Obama answered and not the questioner himself?
Absolutely.
2. Are the media overstepping their bounds with their “investigation” of Joe?
Yes.
3. Will any of it matter enough to sway the election?
No. Some undecided voters are undoubtedly swayed by Joe, but that is offest (at least somewhat) by those that have fallen for the demonization.
In short, I don’t write off McCain’s chances. But it will take something bigger than this.
Obama must be protected from all conversations w/o his prompter. The ObamaBots are sent after the One has an off script moment to destroy the victim. This is just like the beginning of the Hitler rise to power. NoBAMA is one scary candidate!
Interesting that the media wants to find out about Joe yet they ignore Ayers, Farakahn, Rezko and Odinga. Joe made Obama admit something in plain language that he has been disguising in his Alinsky-speak.
What has this country come to? Sense when has it been bad to ask our future elected leaders a question? Are we still America?
Why are the liberals trying to destroy this mans life? Did he commit any crime that requires his life being torn apart? Whats next? Are we going to start forming mobs and shouting crucfy him, crucify him!
I’m deeply saddened by this stupidity that is the liberal machine in this country. god forbid should we speak out about a socialist politician in this coutry because we now see what our lives will be like when we do. Joe
Joe, I’m sure you’ll come though this just fine and I will keep you in my prayers.
I can only hope that the next Joe will be just as brave and proud of his country as you are. Vairy
I think it is remarkable how articulate and well spoken Joe is . He did very well in his press conferance. As a formewr teacher, he makes me proud.
I am trying to work up some sympathy for a plummer making $200,00 per year. Somehow, I just can’t.
This is the funniest episode yet.
I work in a service trade, not plumbing, and have experienced the hostility of those who resent that we actually expect payment from our betters. These twits who are going after Joe wouldn’t last a day working for him.
Can we start asking those who work in the MSN if they are ‘real’ journalists?
Derek
Re: Joe (Sam) the Plumber…
It’s clear from the actual footage that our guy Joe actually was deliberately baiting Obama, and we find out now that in fact, he’s not even a licensed plumber. Not that it really matters. What matters is the real issue: if our guy wants to own a company and employ plumbers, he should understand that he has an obligation to protect the health of his workers by providing health coverage. He should also understand that business owners ought to pay a fair share of taxes (it’s not the published marginal rate that matters in this measure– it’s the actual, effective percentage of tax paid: right now, people in that category are paying roughly 2/3 the amount of income tax that they’d pay with W-2 income at the same level, due to excessive deduction/credit loopholes and other tax-wrangling.) That he’s not prepared to do that, and that other business owners, large and small, are not willing or prepared to do so, represents one of the major inequities in our society, and explains why it is necessary for government to coerce business into doing the right thing– they absolutely will NOT do it on their own, because they’re greedy and short-sighted.
It’s clear from the actual footage that our guy Joe actually was deliberately baiting Obama
You’re essentially saying that Obama can’t stand up to Joe the Plumber,
then how’s he going to stand up Putin or Achmantizionistjard?
#41 John- get on message: you’re suppose to say a quarter of a million dollars.
You repeat a lie over enough….
Darnit, How come the Republicans didn’t plant some one name Robert the Construction worker, then we could of had Bob the Builder. Oh wait, this is Bush’s fault? Never mind. You morons on the left are getting more looney by the day. WOW, and you guys have the audacity to call us the conspiracy theorist? Good luck on your Salem Witch Hunt guys!
“43
Nikflorida Says:
It’s clear from the actual footage that our guy Joe actually was deliberately baiting Obama,”
Right, Obomber was entrapped by this Joe guy. Joe was on his front lawn tossing a football to his kid, pretending not to notice the Presidential candidate making his way down Joe’s street. When the earnest young candidate happened by, just to say “Hi” and grab a quick photo op., evil Joe pounced!
From post #43 we get this bit of Marxist rants: “[A]nd represents one of the major inequities in our society, and explains why it is necessary for government to coerce business into doing the right thing– they absolutely will NOT do it on their own, because they’re greedy and short-sighted.”
Are we to infer that the salaried employees of Joe’s (or, if you snobbishly prefer ‘Sam’s'–it doesn’t matter) Plumbing Co. are getting health insurance and other government secured suppliments from the taxes Joe’s going to be paid?
You sure seem to be implying that!
The truth is, the government doesn’t coerce small businesses to do the right thing by taxation. They waste billions of tax dollars on grants to people like Acorn, earmarks approaching a billion dollars from your comrade, Obama and other total waste of our money.
Sick minded socialism needs to be ushered toward the way of the Studebaker.
WE HAVE A RIGHT TO PROPERTY!! It’s not granted as a lease to us by the government.
Jefferson was right. (Dispute him at your own peril.) The right to property is a prerequisite to legitimate government. If governments can not or will not guarantee it, then they become illegitimate, as Jefferson penned in the Declaration.
Our labor is our property and if we labor to build labor for others and ourselves, it’s not greed to want to make use of it. Sure, we have an obligation to pay for government’s legitimate expenses…emphasis on legitimate.
But government has no business in coercing small businesses into doing what’s ‘right’–’right’ being the socialists’ definition of punishing property owners.
I “hope” that lefturd demonization of Joe will “change” the opinions of some of the Obamacolytes.
Joe the Plumber, with one deftly asked question, may have saved us all the nightmare of an Obammassiah.
Leftys, please keep throwing mud at Joe… I’m sure it will sway people to your Marxist cause.
What I don’t understand is the thinking that 250k per year makes you necessarily rich.
In NYC you are not rich if that is what you make. Maybe in some areas in the country it is true
but not all and who knows: maybe x number of years from now making that kind of money will mean your poor if there is inflation. I would think that to be able to afford to buy a non rent controlled apartment in NYC you would have to be making closer to 1 mil per year.
Yes! The kind, inclusive, tolerant, open-minded, diversity-loving rainbow coalition of press people and LeftWingNuts demonstrate their anti-hate, anti-bigotry, love of country, once again.
And the backlash nails ‘em to the wall. I would to be a fly on the wall at MSNBC or at the Huffinton party when the election results reveal McCain is our next president!
http://allanerickson.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/nine-terrifying-words/
Obama has been sneering at and ridiculing Joe the Plumber. Like, who in the In Crowd can stand an uppity proletariat with ambitions to become successful business owners? The In Crowd, tre cool and full of progressive ambitions, echoes the jeers of Dear Leader. Fun times in this historic campaign! But a professional campaign crew must know that real people, in large numbers in the swing states, have a greater interest in Joe’s point of view than in consenting to having their wallets pinched. Did Obama just get tweaked enough to overide his caution alarms? He should be walking away, and fast, not drawing more unwanted attention to his Marxist roots. I wonder how many non members of the In Crowd in those crucial states have now heard about this “spreading the wealth” stuff? Keep digging, Barry, just a little more, yeah, good deal, how about just a little more…
Poor Nikflorida doesn’t understand that there wouldn’t BE any W-2s if there were not business income taxed more advantageously (or that to be taxed on a business basis, you have to accept a lot of restrictions on the use of the income that don’t pertain to W-2 income).
If you want to reduce taxes on individuals, reduce government spending.
If I hear the words joe the plumber one more time I’m going to be sick.
Are there any members of the wacko right posting here who are not regular listeners to Limbaugh or Hannity? Regurgitated talking points seem to be about all I’m reading.
I personally have no strong feelings about Joe the Plumber one way or another. He’s just an interesting diversion, not somebody that either candidate can get much mileage from except demagoging to the most extreme dummies.
Anyway you folks need to take some time off from the rw shock jocks and find some thoughts of your own. You probably couldn’t define a socialist or a capitalist for that matter if your life depended on it. Not an independent thinker in the bunch I reckon.
Seeya pod people.
Joe the unlicensed plumber, indulging in a bit of day dreaming and stirring up the Democratic candidate, seems to have made a hit with the anti-taxation crowd.
Guys, get over the 1950′s reds-under-the-bed mentality. “Spread the wealth” is an accurate description of how taxes are used to buy civilization. If you think Obama meant it as code for “communist take-over”, then you really are in a sorry frame of mind.
When good hard-working people cannot make ends meet, something is wrong. The current crop of repubs have destroyed the US economy, and emptied out the treasury to fund bogus wars and plump up fat-cats like Halliburton. The people of the US have been ripped-off big time, and you’re allowing them to distract you with Joe the Plumber?
P.S. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, did not have Al-Qaida operatives in it (although it does now), and had no mass weapons of destruction. The US people were conned.
to Gary Ogletree (#52)
No one is denying Joe the right to own his own business (well, at least I am not). I am just saying that a business owner who has a net income in excess of $200,000 can probably afford to pay a marginal tax rate 3% higher on income above that amount. That means if Joe earns $250,000 in one year, the difference in his taxes under the Obama plan would only amount to $1500 more per year or $125 per month. I am guessing a guy whose net income is over $20,000 can afford that kind of increase.
BTW the tax levels Obama is proposing are the exact tax levels in place during the Clinton administration when, as you may recall, we had a pretty good economy and were able to generate an annual surplus in the federal budget.
Karl Rove did not make a deal with the devil. That is ridiculous. Karl Rove IS the devil.
Since Joe is not Joe, not a plumber, doesn’t pay his taxes, and was never an independent, why are we discussing him?
to Sandy (#56)
Great points. What I thought Obama meant when he said “spread the wealth” was that the well off have received the benefits of the Bush tax/economic policy for the past eight years and now it is time for the middle-class to receive some of those benefits.
G. O. “Obama has been sneering at and ridiculing Joe the Plumber.”
Where Gary? Got any solid quotes to back that up? Just more of the endless invented right wing victimology as far as I can see.
dingo, both Dear Leader and Dopey Joe the Senator took their shots a Joe the Plumber yesterday,and did so for the cameras. Do I have to link to You Tube for you? Get off your butt.
Joe the Plumber?
What is it going to be next week – Dave the Dentist?
.
Our Culture seems “perversely obsessed with Triviality & Mediocrity.
With over 26 years, McCain is an obvious product of an inane and silly Congress that’s become more irrelevant each day. When was the last great debate in the halls of Congress?
Obama seems brilliant, but often appears bored with the lack-luster level that he has to operate on.
I’m surprised that the candidates weren’t asked if they had swimming pools.
Forget the character attacks, however deserved or not. Let’s deal with the actual issue that was raised. Here’s a relevant excerpt from the (very) conservative Wall Street Journal article of OCTOBER 17, 2008, ‘As Joe the Plumber Grows Famous, the Politics Get Murkier’:
“To reach a level that would be affected by Sen. Obama’s proposed tax increase, Mr. Smither said, a mom-and-pop plumbing company like Newell would have to clear $5 million in annual sales. [Joe’s company actually reports only $100,000 in sales.]
Even if Mr. Wurzelbacher reaped taxable income from his business of $280,000 a
year, he’d pay only about $900 more a year in taxes under Sen. Obama’s plan, which
would raise the tax rate on the income between $250,000 and $280,000 to 36%
from 33%.
[...]
If Mr. Wurzelbacher earns the wages of a typical Ohio plumber, $40,600, and holds a $90,000 mortgage, he would see a TAX CUT (emphasis added) under Sen. Obama’s plan of more than $1,000, compared with no tax reduction under Sen. McCain’s.
If he succeeds in buying the plumbing business where he works, he could see even more tax benefits, including Sen. Obama’s proposed elimination of capital-gains taxes for small-business investment, a 50% tax credit to purchase health insurance for employees and a $3,000 tax credit for every new hire over the next two years.”
Yep … facts are pesky things.
Sneering at “Joe”.. Thats pure BS. Why don’t you go back to listening to Hannity. He’s out there broadcasting that Obama is eating caviar in early celebration. If they served caviar at last nights gala…then McCain partook as well. I get tired of you republican losers (and I am a republican; one who is disgusted with our party) … They count on slime like Karl Rove to create despicable and lying campaigns. They plant “operatives” to rig voting or influence voting. They all belong in prison.
Furthermore, Sarah Palin is a “gimmick”. She is inexperienced and untested. Scary thought, should the old geezer kick it. If Palin was to assume the mantle, then it would be the “shadow government” pulling the strings. The same operatives who pull “w’s” strings. A vote for mccain is a vote for WWIII. Obama is his own man. Top of his class at Harvard. McCain: bottom of his class at Annapolis. (Thank daddy for getting him through) He crashed four airplanes. Lousy pilot.
I have a friend who told me a mccain anecdote: Back in the seventies, when he was in the USAF, He had to attend a mandatory meeting with McCain speaking about how to resist interrogation & torture. After about an hour of self glory talk, one of the airmen ripped a huge fart. Everyone laughed. McCain absolutely lost it my buddy said. He started slamming things around and ranting and raving. You want that guy with the nuclear button? I think not.
J23 “dingo, both Dear Leader and Dopey Joe the Senator took their shots a Joe the Plumber yesterday,and did so for the cameras.”
The charge was “snearing” and “ridiculing”. Saying you don’t know any plumbers in your neighborhood getting “$250,000 doesn’t meet that standard.
Don’t worry, I already know that blubbering predigested victim noises, blabbering out negative political words(ie communism) you can’t define and belching charges you can’t defend is part of the rightwings ethos. How else would Limbaugh get paid 400 million dollars. Keeping the zombies well fed with faux talking points is his job. And judging from what I read and hear he does it well. Unfortunately you guys don’t have his style. Even perpetual frat boy Hannity has more effect than the parroted crap you guys post.
It’s funny, all this talk from numbskulls about how stupid Sarah Palin is. They’ve never met her, and know nothing about her except what some talking head on television told them.
My bet is, none of these clowns have ever been a Governor, Mayor. Never negotiated a multibillion dollar deal with an oil/gas company.
I’d sooner trust John McCain and Sarah Palin to deal with the current mess than Obama and Biden. Both of them are going to raise EVERYBODIES’ taxes. When the reality sets in, after he’s elected, and he can’t continue his tax plan AND his spending plan. What do you suppose is going to go? He’s certainly not going to cut his giveaway and spending plans… only leaves the tax plan… it’ll go so fast you won’t even think of Bill Clinton’s “tax cut”… er, largest tax increase in the history of the country.
So those of you who idenditfy with Joe the plumber are relatives of Charles Keating of the S & L scandal, and you go up to presidential nominees and lie about your name, occupation and ambition and then conveniently get photographed and and your conversation is recorded and then you just happened to have your fake name and fake occupation mentioned by the opposing presidential nominee 21x are trying to tell the rest of us that your just average Joes.
So the average Joe Plumber not Joe Plumber mislead the public and the politicians as matter of course. Ok I admit it I see Pod People!
John McCain uses this guy as the centerpiece of his debate, referencing him several times and there is some left-wing conspiracy in the media going and finding out what it can about him? You have got to be kidding! Do you seriously mean to suggest that if Joe had turned out to be without blemishes the Republicans wouldn’t have been dragging him around as a campaign mascot? Yet another McCain campaig mis-step that people who are dishonest try to spin as if Obama did something wrong.
Both parties are dismal. Joe, or no Joe, I’ll be voting for McCain/Palin. Having one party in control or both houses, as well as the Presidency is never good…. withess how Republicans came down with “Potomac Fever” as soon as they got control, and grew government exponentially. Believe it will be worse, with Obama,Pelosi, and Reid getting unfettered control. Gridlock is far preferable. We’ve got a Depression on the horizon. Both parties are lying through their teeth making promises of tax cuts, spending cuts, etc. Hell, we’re broke, and what does our government do? Print paper. With Democrat majorities in both houses, there will be no drilling, no energy policy, no solution to the economic problems. They have 700 billion + to distribute to their campaign contributors. That money is GONE! Remember… there’s that small issue of two vacancies on the Supreme Court. Yep, that same Supreme Court that just ruled that the Ohio Atty Gen. didn’t have to verify voter registrations. Need another Souter or Ginsberg? Whoever Obama nominates will sail through confirmation, with no opposition. Best hunker down and prepare for a prolonged and very deep recession.
If we see tightening in the polls (and in some we already are), it will be due to McCain loosening up and being the candidate voters saw at the Al Smith Dinner and Letterman.
That’s the image he needs to project to the voters in the next two-plus weeks.
Joe the Plumber, William Ayers, etc. is a bunch of worthless crap. McCain CAN win, but he can’t keep riding losing horses like that.
I think the press is just spreading around what is flowing downhill from the top guy.
Joe the plumber is just another in a long line of BS that McCain and Rove are just throwing at Obama to see if anything sticks. The problem is that we are all on to the dirty tricks scheme. Look at them ACORN, Ayers, Rev Wrong, being black, not a true american, raise your taxes, etc etc etc. The truth is that the repubs are getting their a__ __ kicked in and they dont know how to stop it. I have lost all respect for McCain and his smile at you on national tv and all the while sticking you in the back with a knife. Where is the honest John McCain that used to be- he has sold himself to the devil- the neo con repubs who are all afraid of going to jail for their misdeeds. Sarah Palin became the perfect mouthpiece for them like W for rove and cheney. Another airhead. If she was ever to be the president, it would be the greatest disaster in the history of the USA. Joe the plumber is another in the long line of s__ __ t throwing by the radical right wingers. Not this time- you are slinging the crap in to a fan that is pointed right back at you. dr Z
The point about Joe, or Sam, the plumber is not that the media has investigated him. The point is, now that we know he is the one employee in a two man business that grosses 100,000 a year, that the question he posed to Obama was dishonest. He said he was going to buy a business that would bring his income to “250,000 to 280,000″ a year. I fail to understand why so many conservatives have such an emotional response to a situation that is so inherently rational and obvious. Joe had a agenda; he lied to advance his agenda; he has been caught in his lie; now people need to decide if Joe is such an important person that he deserves all this time online.
Look at me, pleading for reason. (I would never expect Podhoretz to be reasonable. He thought the Iraquis would welcome us.)
Closer to the truth is that Joe the Plumber was sent into the path of Barack Obama by right wing talk radio such as Rush Limbaugh’s propaganda-fest only to have it confirmed that Obama’s plan would in fact lower his taxes as it would for most plumbers in the US, the average salary of which is around $48K. If Sam the Plumber is grossing $250K a year no matter what he’s doing then he should pay a higher share of taxes to offset those who are making far less.
Joe would still be going anonymously about his business had John McCain not mentioned him to 50 million TV viewers. McCain used him – without warning or vetting (sound familiar?)—as an example of how his tax policies would benefit guys like Joe. That’s when his bona fides become relevant. The facts of Joe (a modest income and no immediate prospects for buying any business) demonstrate that he’d actually benefit from Barack Obama’s tax plan. That those facts destroy the credibility, job prospects and good name of a losing and desperate presidential candidate is no one’s fault but the candidate’s. But feel free to feel sorry for Joe, since all he did, it would appear to the naked eye, was to be the object of an impulsive, gut-level decision.
If Joe wants to be mad, he can direct it to McCain for exploiting him to make a flawed point.
If you want to mad, blame again goes to McCain for acting impulsively, without forethought and in callous disregard for the consequences of turning an un-vetted citizen into a political pawn.
If the American people want to be mad, it can be at John Podhoretz for suggesting it is somehow dishonorable or left-leaning to provide what we need to make informed decisions.
“If we see tightening in the polls (and in some we already are), it will be due to McCain loosening up and being the candidate voters saw at the Al Smith Dinner and Letterman.”
It couldn’t be because of anything Obama’s doing, or not doing. Oh no.
“Closer to the truth is that Joe the Plumber was sent into the path of Barack Obama by right wing talk radio such as Rush Limbaugh’s propaganda-fest only to have it confirmed that Obama’s plan would in fact lower his taxes as it would for most plumbers in the US, the average salary of which is around $48K.”
Yes, that’s closer to the truth than, say, unicorns.
“Joe would still be going anonymously about his business had John McCain not mentioned him to 50 million TV viewers.”
And a lot fewer people would now know that Barack Obama is a socialist.
Too bad Barack Obama and Joe Biden didn’t know until after they publically ridiculed Samuel Joseph “joe” the plumber,
that they were ridiculing a former member of the military who still has buddies in service.
This will not go over too well with the military. This will not go over too well for Obama at all.
In fact, Obama’s encouragement of the press heckling of Joe the Plumber Military Man may well go down in history as the defining act that cost him his race for president.
like most democrats im a proud gay man and i think joes hot.he can fix my plumbing anytime .hehe
Assuming a 4-year payback, to buy a company that nets $250 thousand for the owner’s pocket, that takes an investment of $1 million. Our friend Joe the Plumber turns out to be a millionaire. Now that he is a millionaire, he can afford the extra 3% in taxes he will pay on the excess about $250 grand of income, not bad. The good news is, in terms of the American dream, with Obama’s tax plan, other would-be Joe the Plubers will be able to work themselves up to the millionaire mark without having to accumlate a debt of unpaid back taxes to do so, like our good friend Joe did.