The vice presidential debate provided a test case about the way Americans think about civility. In terms of substance, both Vice President Biden and Paul Ryan had their moments of strength. Ryan was strong on foreign policy, while Biden squirmed and threw the intelligence community under the bus about administration lies about the Benghazi attack. Biden delivered class warfare body blows about Mitt Romney’s “47 percent” gaffe.
But the main difference between the two wasn’t so much their competing liberal and conservative ideas and arguments. It was the blatant disrespect shown by Biden for his opponent. Biden giggled, smirked and mugged throughout the debate almost every time Ryan spoke. He also interrupted the Republican almost at will without moderator Martha Raddatz saying a word to call him to order. It may be that Democrats were so dismayed by President Obama’s passive performance in his debate last week that Biden was urged to be more aggressive. But what he did wasn’t merely aggressive; he was openly rude. That may have encouraged the Democratic base, but it remains to be seen whether that is the sort of thing most Americans are comfortable with.
Democratic spinners will say he is a “happy warrior,” that his nastiness and aggressiveness bloodied the Republicans and that it doesn’t matter that the way he did it was embarrassing. They may have a point. People probably won’t decide not to vote for Obama because they think the giggling, smirking and interrupting was beneath the dignity of the office he holds. If Biden’s job was simply to rally the base and attack his opponents, then his arrogant condescension will help the Democrats regain their momentum after a week in which they’ve lost a lot of ground.
But it is also possible that a lot of those Americans who saw the debate, even those who are Democrats but especially independents and undecided voters, will not think much of a vice president of the United States acting more like a schoolyard bully than a statesman.
Many Democrats will applaud Biden’s buffoonery and falsely claim that it was no different from Romney’s demeanor last week even though there is no possible comparison. Republicans can console themselves that while Ryan did seem a little nervous at times, he wasn’t intimidated. Nor did Biden succeed in painting Ryan as the monster that the Democrats claim him to be. Ryan also passed the plausibility threshold as a potential president because of his strong knowledge of foreign policy.
The bottom line here is that neither side won or lost. But it is also possible that Biden’s misbehavior will be remembered with distaste long after this election is decided.
My wife made me watch the debate in the basement after I started to talk to the TV. My objects were Ryan and the moderator. That tells you what I thought of the debate. Fortunately, I don't think it will change the dynamics of the race, but it could provide some encouragement and enthusiasm for the Democratic base which might show up with the race settling to a margin of error tie. The crucial independents? My guess is the presidential debate will help to move those still undecided.
Why is it so hard for a Conservative to stop, look at the moderator, and simply ask, "Excuse me, am I debating you, too?"
I understand that the VP's role is "attack dog", but maybe Biden should not have taken it too literally. He was simply obnoxious. Ryan should not have put up with this "my friend" bunch of stuff. Ryan should have put the bully on his place.
I watched C-Span's side by side. nThat was no happy warrior. nWhen Biden turned into "angry white man", and then turned red, well, that is most of what I remember because it was so astonishing. n nMaybe that was after Ryan called him "Joe". n nHope Ryan gets credit for noting the Executive's fight with overwhelming bi-partisan legislation fortougher Iran sanctions. Nuance does get lost in what was a really intense 90 minutes.
An informal poll taken in my household of people who are not that politically aware shows that the debate was a disaster for Biden, if his purpose was to convince independents. I'm sure some stalwart Democrats liked it, though.
I'm in the camp that actually likes Joe Biden personally, but I like him a little less after seeing his behavior during the debate tonight. At some point he crossed over from being simply brash to being mean-spirited.
They should have debated on 9/11. Biden was extremely loud and incredibly close.
The Joe being Joe just doesn't cut it for me. He should be held to the same standard as any other politician.
That's fine because he is going to be out of a job come January 2013.
Last might Joe Biden looked like a man that was unhinged he also reminded me of the Joker from Batman and lastly he acted like a petty circus clown and a bumbling buffoon. Biden disgraced the office of the Vice President of the United States of America and I didn't think that was possible after all of the damage this administration has done already.
Biden was a perfect representative for the attitudes of his party and the behavior of the Obama administration toward the GOP the last 4 years. He just provided a perfect explanation for the fiscal cliff. It's impossible for reasonable, rational people to negotiate with dishonest, disrespectful, disgusting jerks like Biden. n nClearly liberals loved the way Biden represented them. Says a lot.
“Biden delivered class warfare body blows about Mitt Romneyu2019s u201c47 percentu201d gaffe.” I wonder about the usefulness of characterizing Biden as anything but a populist demagogue, especially as he continually deploys the term “middle class” to substitute for working class. I do wish that the press en masse would refrain from describing what should be substantial discussions of policy as if they were boxing matches. What is wrong with teaching your readers something about political science?
What if both candidates acted exactly as Biden did? We would very soon be unable to have debates, right? I tend to think at some level American will subconsciously think about that, to the detriment of the Obama campaign, maybe not much at all, but some.
So if all you do is make your most deeply committed followers jump up and down with joy, you’re not selling anyone else. So, in that sense, I’m glad Biden did what he did. He sold nothing to anyone who had not already purchased his product. I say this as a retired successful professional salesman.
Joe Biden has been a disgrace to America since his performance in the Bork Hearings. He has no respect for American institutions, and no self-respect either. He and Mr. Obama make a good team – the only thing they respect and love is: Power. The disrespect shown by the administration to the dead American Ambassador to Libya and his staff members is an overwhelming sign of disrespect for America; my goodness, that attack occurred on American sovereign ground, killing four Americans. Of course the administration does not believe in sovereignty, just the power of holding office – without principle. But to maintain a proven false position for weeks after the fact is the height of abuse of Power. It is done purely for politics, without the least concern for the interests of Americans or the country, or the families of the fallen.
After Obama's dismal performance last week, Biden and his handlers decided that he would come out swinging. A central part of that strategy was a misguided attempt to use various elements of scorn to ridicule Congressman Ryan. The problem is, it seriously backfired. Biden simply became unglued. Once programmed, however, Biden was unable to turn off the ridicule machine. Rather than using it occasionally, perhaps to greater effect, he used it incessantly, and thereby drew audience attention to his buffoonery. It is hard to believe that the American people elected this man vice-president. n nOn the issues, Biden is unable to rise above mindless populist demagoguery. Like his boss, who is a true radical with lifelong radical influences, Biden plays the class warfare game with equal determination. Neither Biden not Obama are leaders capable of tackling our serious economic and fiscal challenges. They are far more concerned about holding power on behalf of their radical agenda and the special interest groups (particularly the public sector unions) they serve than the American people generally. Just as Dennis Prager articulated it in 2008, this election is less about Obama and Biden than it is about an electorate that would elect an Obama and Biden. It is a battle for America's soul, and a test of whether Alexander Tytler's, and others (e.g. Jefferson, De Tocqueville), warning about democracies only lasting until the voters realize they can vote themselves largesse from the federal treasury. Obama and Biden are the contemporary agents of that dynamic that is a threat to our Constitutional Republic. n
He was a "old bully".
You people are truly delusional. Biden spanked Ryan bad and exposed the fact that Ryan had no clue on foreign policy. Several times, he called Ryan's bluff…..what do you want another war? Ryan backed down and visibly squirmed. Why not just say "let's go to war with Iran if that's what you think." Ryan made a fool of himself with "I support the timeline to get out of Afghanistan, but you don't announce a timeline." Dummy. As Joe pointed out, if you don't give the Afghani government a public timeline, they will never get their sh$t together and we can't leave. There was not a damn thing Ryan had to offer to improve on Obama's foreign policy and he had to back away from some positions. The only difference from the Obama debate is that THIS time every time the Republican lied, he was called on it.
If there is anyone who leapt to the center among the debaters this month, it was not Romney as we hear from liberals, but indeed Biden. I think you got it exactly right calling him a "populist demagogue"–I certainly heard demagogic rhetoric coming from him on Iran, Syria, and Afghanistan, and perhaps Libya as well (if we regard his rhetoric as demagogic against the intelligence community).