Since Hamas initiated the latest round of fighting in Gaza, Israel’s critics have been hard-pressed to criticize the country’s need to defend its people against a barrage of hundreds of rockets fired by terrorists. But that hasn’t stopped some of them from trying to use the conflict to claim that the only solution is to further empower the Islamist terrorist group that rules over Gaza with an iron hand. That’s the prescription for a new U.S. foreign policy coming from the Daily Beast’s Peter Beinart. Beinart thinks what America and Israel need to do is try and use a cease-fire agreement to co-opt the Islamists into backing a new peace process, along with their Fatah rivals of the Palestinian Authority, as well as to promote Palestinian democracy.
It is an article of faith on the left that the two-state solution, rather than Israeli military efforts, is the only answer to Palestinian terrorism. But though most Israelis, including the government of Benjamin Netanyahu, have accepted the idea in principle, the repeated refusal of even the so-called moderate Palestinians to negotiate have rendered the idea moot for the foreseeable future. But as unrealistic as calls for Israel to do something to boost the PA are at this moment, to imagine, as Beinart does, that Hamas can be co-opted into such a process by Western recognition demonstrates an astonishing lack of understanding of the situation.
Beinart is right when he characterizes the Israeli counter-offensive as merely a short-term solution rather than a long-term strategy. Many Israelis regard Operation Pillar of Defense in much the same way they saw the 2008 campaign called Cast Lead: as nothing more than a periodic effort to hamper Hamas’s military capability. The 2005 decision to withdraw from Gaza was a security disaster, but few Israelis want any part of governing the strip again. All they want is for it to be prevented from threatening their country, and to that end they back a regular “grass cutting” in Gaza that will make it harder for Hamas to terrorize millions of Israelis the way they have in the last week.
This Israeli consensus frustrates foreign observers like Beinart who insist they can solve a problem that citizens of the Jewish state see as having been proven to be intractable by 20 years of failed peace processing. They also understand that, contrary to Beinart, the last thing Hamas wants is either peace with Israel under any circumstances or democracy for the Palestinians.
Far from being tempted to bolster Abbas, the current Hamas campaign is intended to boost their own standing among Palestinians at Fatah’s expense. Moreover, Hamas’s leadership believes the support it has gotten from Egypt and Turkey renders Abbas obsolete. In a sense, they are right. Far from highlighting the need for a Palestinian state, the current fighting is a reminder that one already exists in Gaza and its leaders believe the Palestinian people prefer to be sacrificed on the altar of unending war with Israel than good government or peace.
Ending the West’s efforts to isolate Hamas won’t revive the two-state solution. What it would do is to legitimize a brutal, dictatorial Islamist regime in Gaza and encourage Hamas to think that they can eventually seize the West Bank as well.
Should his friends in the Obama administration heed Beinart’s point of view and the United States reward Hamas in this fashion, it wouldn’t just strengthen Hamas’s ability to withstand future Israeli counter attacks. It would also kill whatever slim hopes exist for democratization of the corrupt and violent Palestinian political culture.
Beinart concludes his piece by trotting out one of the oldest lamest arguments of those trying to revive hopes for peace with Israel’s foes. It is the old quote about the need to make peace with enemies, not your friends. But if there is anything Israelis have learned in the 20 years since Oslo, it is that you make peace with enemies who are willing to live in peace and give up the hope of your destruction, not enemies who merely wish to gain concessions prior to restarting the conflict on more advantageous terms. That’s the mistake Israel made with Yasir Arafat. It won’t make the same one with the Islamists of Hamas.
The fact that there is no long-term political solution available to Israel as it copes with a terrorist state on its doorstep is frustrating. But pundits like Beinart and the Obama administration need to be reminded that the choice facing Israel isn’t between peace and talking to Hamas. It’s between survival and death.
Two state solution? Why not? But who says that the states in question must be Israel and "Palestine" and not a Jewish Palestinian State without the Arabs and an Arab State, like Jordan, the latter controlled and funded by the Saudis. "Palestinians" is a misnomer. They are mostly Arab terrorists or would-be terrorists who should be resettled in the Arab world.
—" It is an article of faith on the left that the two-state solution, rather than Israeli military efforts, is the only answer to Palestinian terrorism."— n nit's pathetic pile of crap to try to assert that as the position of the left…. and it marks the person as less than honest or really dim. n n nthe left holds that terrorism must be met with force but that a political solution that gives the Palestinians a state rather than an leaves them endlessly under belligerent occupation will ultimately be better for all. n nIsrael is here to stay and the Palestinians aren't going anywhere. they're already crushed and nearly helpless and further repression buys only a brief respite. n nHamas has to change or be beaten down and driven from power….and after that there still has to be a deal…..or war to eliminate one side or the other. n nshould the Israelis undertake such a war, they will be far worse off than they are now, if they win.
Dub, how I wish you were right when you say that is a straw man position. Too many on the left pay lip service to Israel's right to defend itself (and many do not even do that), but insist that Israel do so without hurting anyone. Witness the pathetic embarce of Goldstone in the Forward. Did Letty Pogrebin and the many commenters at Forward ever retract their remarks after Goldstone disavowed his inaccurate, biased and dishonest report?
there are indeed a big bunch of overly delicate dopes and dupes on the left, but Tobin is pretending that the dopes are are the majority and avoiding any intellectual honesty by ignoring the rather more prevalent and well-reasoned and evidenced arguments. n nit speaks poorly of him that he attempts nothing other than shooting at the straw people. n nI rather enjoyed poking fun at the crazy leftists who clutched at the Goldstone report as if it came down from on high…. and was positively overjoyed when they freaked out later. n n nI sent some lovely letters to that piece of shirt Phil Weiss over that. n nbig thanks for re-kindling pleasant memories.
Nice to see you express yourself in the same elegant terms, though, Dub. nDon't forget asher yotzar.
and verily, I'm gonna have to accept that admonishment.
why does anyone pay attention to Peter Beinart?
Because he gives cover to those who want to see Israel destroyed but won't admit it. And he gives comfort to those who share his own delusions about the good will of the Arabs and the ability to make peace with people who would rather die, and sacrifice their children, than see you and your children live in peace — even if peace would give them as well as you a better life.
Because he's so gosh darn smart! n n nThose dumb Israelis couldn't even figure out that the solution to Hamas wanting to destroy Israel and kill every Jew on Planet Earth was to give Hamas MORE power and influence. n nAnd . . . and . . . those silly Israelis didn't even know there was a crisis in Zionism until Beinart wrote his book. n nTHAT'S why we pay attention to Beinart.
Because he's a good man and loves Israel and wants Israel to succeed without having to resort to doing things that he thinks not necessary and knows to be unethical. n nsometimes he's wrong, but he's neither stupid, nor ever not wanting the best for Israel and the US.
"is the old quote about the need to make peace with enemies, not your friends. But if there is anything Israelis have learned in the 20 years since Oslo, it is that you make peace with enemies who are willing to live in peace and give up the hope of your destruction, not enemies who merely wish to gain concessions prior to restarting the conflict on more advantageous terms." n nYes, but the Torah cautions us that when you go out to war against your enemies, realize that they are your enemies and that they will not have mercy on you if they win.
"the old quote about the need to make peace with enemies, not your friends" n nYou also make war on your enemies, not your friends. n
and after you've prevailed over them, whatta gonna do with the remnant, MM? n neither you make some sort of peace, or slaughter the men and boys and impregnate the women, or you take them all into bondage…what's your choice. n n
Have the women washed and brought to my tent. n nIn all seriousness, we make peace with them when they have no more will or strength left to fight. n nThey obviously and still have the will and strength to fight. That is why there is fighting. n nIt is up to israel to change that. They tried love up till now, by way of electricity, fuel, food and health care, and full autonomy save unlimited weaponry. Didn't work. n nNow, time to be tough, it seems. n nThe Balestinians (they can't pronounce 'p' , you know – shows how authentic their identity is) would pull Beinart's bowels out with their bare hands if they got their hands on him and didn't know he was their useful idiot.
"Have the women washed and brought to my tent. " nSorry, no can do until they have cut their hair and nails, put on mourning clothes, and mourned their loved ones for 30 days. And if you are a cohen, probably not even then. n n"and didn't know he was their useful idiot" – and maybe even if they did.
MM- "they' probably aren't abundant in Maine but do quite, quite well with English pronunciation down here in NYC…… n ncould pe a broblem among you country pumbkins. n n—– n ntheir are quite few who really wish to fight any more, MM….just a guess but I think that Hamas won't hold any new elections because they know that the Gazans wouldn't again vote for them…. and that at least half of their adherents are only in it because Hamas has the jobs. n n nafter this bombing run, it might be time to dangle an offer …..see if anythings biting.
Whether to slaugher the remaining enemies depends entirely on whether they surrender and agree to make peace or whether they refuse to accept defeat and instead continue or merely suspend the war. Their choice.
we've got them done and in squalor and shame……. whadda wanna do …demand they say "uncle' or give them some small concession as an out? n nis there anything that they have left that we need? n nor are we better off making it a little easier to make the best of their defeat? n n
Disarm them, make them say they are ready to live in peace, and make them mean it. Insist that they fight the terrorists instead of joining them, glorifying them or even tolerating them. n nSqualor? Boo hoo hoo. They brought the squalor on themselves, and turned away every Israeli effort to lift them out of it. They diverted food and building materials to buy arms and build fortifications. They were far better off before the intifada, let alone the war, but they would rather kill Jews and destroy the Jewish state than have a better life or even a state of their own. n nIs there anything they have left that we need? Yes; their will to make war, and their weapons.
good idea to eliminate their rockets and to keep them from acquiring others…… n nand you're wrong to attempt to freight the discussion of how to procede into the future with accusations concerning their past behavior…. yeah, they've been wrong, what they believe is wrong (not merely incorrect) but they're weary and it's merely the rump that wish to try to keep fighting. n nHamas and the other dead-enders don't really represent the Palestinian people any more than Kahane and Lieberman and the rest of those folk represent the Israelis. n nyou can't fight to take away their will to make war without indulged in a blood-bath with hundreds of thousands sent to graves….. and no Jew can accept that such should be done with an enemy already prostrate at our feet. n n n nall there is to decide is how we best can go forward. n n
If Israel is not willing to re-occupy the Gaza strip and kick out Hamas, then the only alternative is a Hudna, and Hamas will have to agree to the terms. Israel needs to re-occupy n n
nope, never again should Israel settle for an indirectly-negotiated truce with Hamas, unless it's one that's preliminary to actual , direct negotiation
I desire to bring the attention to another point of the problem, namely, the current war with Hamas (and soon with Hezbolla) is just the necessary step(s) of the coming war with Iran. If Israel will be victorious in the war that would change the history of the ME and Israel.
Almost no one on the Muslim side desires a two-state solution. Palestine is an Islamic holy land, to be liberated in the name of God from Jews and their crusader sponsors. Salam Fayyad appears to sincerely want peace, but he has no backing from anyone besides Israel and the US. Israel will have to maintain security control of the West Bank and Gaza for eternity. There can be no "comprehensive solution". Likud knows this but can't say it. They have to pretend to support a two-state solution.
[more] n'* * * n nNever mind that the rockets could have fallen on their heads. As far as these Palestinians are concerned, there is no problem if a number of Arabs are killed on the way to destroying Israel. n nThe celebrations reflect the strong hostility that many Palestinians continue to feel toward Israel despite 20 years of a peace process, and billions of dollars of Western aid. This hostility is the direct result of years of anti-Israel and anti-Western incitement in the Arab and Islamic world. * * n nNo one is expecting the Palestinians to express solidarity or sympathy with Israel in its confrontation with Hamas. n nBut when many Palestinians express their joy in public over the firing of rockets and missiles at Israeli cities, one is entitled to wonder whether there is a majority of Palestinians who would ever agree to any form of compromise with Israel. n nIn today's world of the Palestinians, anyone who talks about peace with Israel is a traitor and a collaborator; but anyone who calls for the destruction of Israel and fires rockets at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem is a hero.'