Hillary Clinton announced the deal at a Cairo press conference this afternoon. Reports haven’t included all the details of the agreement just yet, but it’s supposed to take effect shortly:
Nov 21 (Reuters) – U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday the ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza had come at a crucial time for countries of the Middle East.
“This is a critical moment for the region. Egypt’s new government is assuming the responsibility and leadership that has long made this country a cornerstone for regional stability and peace,” she said at a joint news conference with her Egyptian counterpart, Mohamed Kamel Amr.
We’ll see what both sides get out of this, if anything but a return to the status quo. Hamas was demanding the lifting of Israel’s blockade. If that’s in the actual agreement — Reuters says it is not — Israel would have traded temporary peace for even bigger problems later on.
There’s also the question of how long this lasts. Israel has successfully destroyed almost all of the missile stockpiles and launching sites it was aware of, so the length of the cease-fire may just depend on how long it takes Hamas to replenish its supplies.
Ceasefire now? Then Hamas 'won'.
Maybe Israel ran out of things to bomb. No sense in wasting ordinance….
No, they could have gone after the Hamas leadership. Zahar, Haniyeh (if the coward crawled back in) etc.
Toward what end? n nIt isn't like Hamas has a solid command structure, and all you would accomplish in killing them would be to make martyrs out of them. n nAnd even if Israel could manage to kill them without hitting others, do not neglect the psychological impact of pictures of blood & gore. One of the most memorable pictures from all of Vietnam — not just the Tet Offensive – was the captured VC being shot in the head — and no mention was made of his having killed 34 civilians. n nSo I ask again: towards what end? Just because they deserve it doesn't count, how does Israel benefit? There aren't junior leaders who would jump for the chance at advancement?
and that's how it's playing in Gaza. seen the video? the usual young men, shirtless, hanging out of cars, pumping their fists, flying the Hamas flag… n nI don't know what Obama promised Bibi to make this happen, but I hope it was worth it.
I don't give it 48 hours and that is conservative.
In a word: Iran. n nMy guess is 72 hours — because Israel really did blow up most of the rockets they had and they have to get new ones from Iran. Which would justify an Israeli retaliation against — well IRAN. n nWhich might actually accomplish something else as well…
[More from Treppenwitz] 3.Whatever you do, don't surrender or submit to any terms dictated by your enemy. That would ruin everything! All you have to do is wait it out and eventually the world will become sickened at what is being done to your 'soldiers' and civilian population… and will force a truce. n4.Once a truce has been called you can resume your intransigence (which probably caused the conflict in the first place), and even declare victory as your opponent leaves the field of battle. nThis tactic has never failed. Not once * * * I say to hell with talk of cease fires and temporary truces. They only benefit the terrorists! ufeff n nI'll say again what I have said so often in the past: These aggressors must be allowed to be beaten so badly that every civilized nation will stand in horror, wanting desperately to step in and stop the carnage… but staying their hand and letting it continue to its necessary conclusion. Because the fight will only truly be over when one side gives up and is forced to admit defeat. n nWorth reading in full.
And if Israel continues with its failed policies (and let's admit it failed leaders) that side will inevitably be Israel. Do you think the results of this campaign will a) encourage Jews to make Aliyah? b) discourage Israelis from joining their numerous yordim brothers and sisters? c) lead to increased foreign direct investment in Israel? d) increase economic development in poverty struck southern Israel? e) do anything to persuade Israel's many Muslim enemies to abandon their genocidal campaign to eliminate both it and the Jewish people? Netanyahu today has shown that he is a King Saul.
Like Treppenwitz, I think this is a huge mistake. nThere is some interesting speculation at Israel Matzav: According to an article he links to, Obama told Israel that the US would support a ground invasion if and only if Israel agreed to install Abu Mazzen over Gaza as well as over Judea and Samaria, but that otherwise the US would veto any ground operation. Reportedly Bib was furious. Carl in Jerusalem speculates that Bibi may have decided that a cease fire was the lesser of the two evils. n nIf this is true, so much for Obama having Israel's back.
I don't believe this for a minute. Israel "agree[ing] to install Abu Mazen over Gaza"? Israel has absolutely no power over who the Pals choose to run Gaza. and the last time they had an election, Abu Mazen's Fatah Party got soundly beaten by Hamas. n nI prefer to think that Obama promised Bibi something he wanted: more funding for Iron Dome, more support for a possible military strike on Iran, etc etc.
The more time passes, the more illogical the world gets. n nPerhaps we are seeing the results of decades of 'relativism' indoctrination among western elites and media, and increasing illogic and barbarity among the failed states of the world. n nThey have linked up in their common denominator focus on, you guessed it, the Jews. n nOf course, they're not anti-Semitic, merely anti-Zionist. n n
I happen to be sitting in a meeting in a room full of liberals who during a brief break started talking about this. I was distracted by another conversation, so I couldn't set them straight (like I'd have been able to), but you are right – "relativism" is the problem. It is inconceivable to them that one side might, you know, be the good side.
I've actually heard intelligent grownups say things like "you have to admit it's kind of rough on the Palestinians, having their land stolen." they know nothing about the history of the region, they know nothing about the 800,000 Jewish refugees that managed to survive and thrive, even. they'll tell you that the Hamas rockets don't do a lot of damage, so why make a big deal? the world is truly nutso.
It is unbelievable how ignorant people are about Israel's history. Of course, the media does nothing but play on that appalling ignorance, and my experience suggests that many of these folks are completely uninterested in being enlightened. It is far more spiritually fulfilling, I suppose, to view the Palestinians as victims of Israeli aggression. The world is truly nuts, as you say, but it is also sickeningly shallow.
Bibi wanted a truce. The policy decision not to retake Gaza is now baked into a cake as hard as cement. And Israel has ruled out massive retaliation against population centers. The IDF chooses limited shock and awe against its target lists–an integrated ground game by Army troops is a last resort and even they leave at first opportunity. If you don't want to take the place over, and aren't going to level the joint (and they aren't) you "mow the grass" and hope that the elimination of assets and inevitable dislocation campaign has its effect.
They are clearly going to switch tactics and return to bus bombings. Those won't count against the so called cease fire.
yes they will, Trudy. if Israel starts being attacked by suicide bombers, you can bet they're going to do something about it. with the ceasefire, Bibi's giving the world a chance to see that Israel is willing to be reasonable. he knows better than anyone that Hamas will start the fighting again as soon as they can. and then Israel can say "Well, we tried."
Al-Aqsa Matyrs’ Brigade (Fatah’s military wing and Abbas’s party) claimed responsibility for the bus bombing. Since it happened right after Hillary Clinton met with Abbas, I took it for the threat that it was – Abbas was/is threatening to renew the violence in Judea and Samaria. Needless to say, that probably had an impact on Netanyahu’s decision to accept some type of truce. If I had to guess, Netanyahu is probably looking for some alternative between having Hamas or some other Islamic group entering into Judea and Samaria and Abbas. Abbas is just like Arafat – a common murderer and thief. The sooner Israel realizes it, the better.
"the length of the cease-fire may just depend on how long it takes Hamas to replenish its supplies." Obama the lying b-stard has done it again. And this is the best part of the next four years. All I can say is that a majority of American Jews, a majority of Americans in general, STINK.
Sorry, but when push comes to shove Israel's leaders have to stand up for their people, because no one else will. And Bibi caved, as Bibi has caved every single time. Bibi said he was opposed to leaving Gaza but he voted for it. He said he was opposed to the Oslo Accords but he continued to negotiate under them, shook Arafat's hand, and abandoned most of Hevron, the cradle of Judaism to the PA. He said he opposed a Fakistinian state but then accepted it. Bibi despite his best intentions is a failed leader of the nationalist cause; it is high time Israelis chose someone else to lead them.
oh please. like who, Tzipi Livni? I agree that Bibi caved. but we don't know what Obama told/promised/threatened him with. and anyway, as I said above somewhere, Bibi knows very well that Hamas is going to break the ceasefire. think about it: what would the Palestinians do witih themselves all day if they weren't trying to kill Israelis? their culture doesn't include violence, it IS violence.
It's truly weird they "celebrate" the ability of their rockets to reach Israel's cities–if their "achievements" ever provoked Israel with its planes and rockets and helicopters and drones and 1,000 self-propelled howitzers to respond in kind that would be about it. They are counting on the civilized superiority of the hated Zionist Jew not to stoop to their level. But if you keep pulling on the lion's tail…
The Boston Israeli Counsel (I think I have his title right) was on Dan Rea's WBZ talk show toight (Nightside) and I was out in Amherst and on the very fringe of reception, but he essentially made the same point. Israel could level Gaza but would much prefer not to. n nHe also mentioned a school bus that had been hit by a rocket – bus nearly empty so only the driver and one child killed, but he pointed out that Israel avoids bright yellow school buses while in Gaza they aim at them and celebrate hitting one. n nI think that does a fairly good job of summing everything up…
Lieberman ruled out an invasion to topple Hamas until after the upcoming elections. Don't look for him to support an invasion after either until Hamas seriously miscalculates Israel's toleration for pain. Bibi is an astute politician and Lieberman is no cream puff. The national religious block is a minority.
Does anyone doubt in the least that the Muslims in Gaza will again strike Israel with rockets and mortars and whatever lethal weapons they can and will certainly acquire? When they do start again, they will be stronger and more Israelis, children and women and other innocents, will die. Particularly since the ground invasion will still have to be done, eventually. I do not know when the next round will start, but you can be sure that it will start within the next four years before the Muslim and Arab supporter leaves office.
Hamas already broke the truce according to Jpost, ynet, and debka by firing some more bombs.
I have been upset and outranged with the Obama administration in the past, but I am besides myself now. I only hope that we can lobby Congress to counterbalance him. I do not blame Netanyahu – it sounds like he was put between a rock and a hard place and didn’t have a choice.
I feel bad second-guessing Netanyahu from the safety and comfort of my American home. and I still say we don't know what kind of pressure Hillary and Obama put on him (or what kind of promises they made him). n nbut I agree with most of you that the ceasefire was a bad idea. the whole time this "incursion" was going on I kept yelling at the TV "not another Cast Lead!" but that is exactly what's happened. n nhowever, let's see what happens when the inevitable rockets from Gaza start flying toward Sderot again.
not even Cast Lead…but imo this was about where he expected to be and the Israeli public is prepared to accept it..
What technological achievement does Hamas aspire to? Rockets with longer range. What technological achievements has Israel already demonstrated? Internationally renown advances in medical science and acknowledged contributions to cutting edge computer technology, recruited by Intel and Microsoft–not to mention developers of an anti-missile system that actually works. n nOpposing mentalities, priorities, and cultures. Israel is a civilization. Gaza is a MS-13 crib writ large.
Yes, exactly.
Culture of life versus culture of death. That is a point that needs to be remembered. n
Bibi lost the election at 9PM last night. n nI couldn't find it online, but a couple of people (including Noah Pollak) were saying that Channel 2 took a poll and found that 70% oppose the cease fire (we cease, they fire, as the joke goes). That matches up with the Facebook comments I am seeing from fellow Israelis, Anglos and Sabras alike. n nAt a minimum, it was stupid and dangerous to sign it now, just hours after the bus bombing. It makes Israel look scared. n nI wouldn't be surprised in Lieberman jumps ship if he sees Bibi bringing down his poll numbers. Yisrael Beiteinu would gain voters, no doubt. Habayit Hayehudi (headed by Naftali Bennett, who made the rounds on English-language news stations during the operation) may very well also see a nice bounce in their poll numbers as angry Likkud voters look elsewhere. n nYesh Atid (Yair Lapid's party) will probably see a bounce, as Lapid has positioned them on the right regarding security issues. If Mofaz can play up his experience as army Chief of Staff during Defensive Shield he may be able to bring Kadima back from the grave. n nPollak said that the cease fire is a reset button for Bibi and Obama. Bibi may very well think he is playing the long game vis-a-vis Iran by patching things up with Obama. But unless there is something planned before the January elections, tonight at least, it seems likely his 'long game' is going to be much shorter than intended.
Very interesting, including the last paragraph. Bibi leaned toward Romey and got burned. n nWould Bibi fall on his sword for the greater good of Israel?