Have no fear, Israel. Here he comes, to save the day!
Mr. Netanyahu, your democratically elected prime minister may not–unlike, say, Mohamed Morsi or Fidel Castro–know where his country’s best interests lie. And, by extension, you who democratically elected him and are about to reelect him may not know either. But there is one who does.
Who has whiled away many a pleasant hour on the luxury golf courses of Hawaii and the beaches of Martha’s Vineyard considering, pondering, knuckling his brow over the best interests of your cute little Middle Eastern democracy. Now, Mr. Obama may never have fought in a war (let alone 3 or 4 or 5); never lived surrounded by vicious enemies dedicated to his extinction; never had to spend months in a bomb shelter; never had to put a gas mask on his 4-year-old; never had to reassure his children that their bus would not be blown up on the way to school. But, hey, Chicago isn’t exactly Switzerland. And he braved the oh-so-fearsome Israel Lobby–twice–in his quest for the presidency.
So go ahead and shoot yourselves in the foot by voting for Mr. Netanyahu again next week. Because now that his own reelection has given him “flexibility,” Mr. Obama is going to do his utmost–with an able assist from Senator Chuck Schumer–to save you from yourselves.
Isn't the whole existence of the massive Israel Lobby predicated on telling America where its best interests lie? The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming.
Hypocrisy is a much overused word on both sides. But, I agree with you that discussion of where a country's "best interests" lie is valueless, unless a specific and mutually agreed on "interest" is discussed. My observation of Obama's instincts, vis-a-vis foreign policy is that he believes that we have no right to dictate to Russia, China, Korea, every country other than Israel, actually, how to behave. So be it. But it is my opinion that by not standing up to bullying from such countries, and, to the bargain, demanding unmatched concessions from Israel, will one day be seen as a tremendous blunder, much like not standing up to Hitler was once seen.
That may be. I give you credit, at least, for not calling me an anti-Semite for mentioning the existence of the lobby. n nFor the record, I have no problem with people who want to argue that America should support Israel, or that Israel is right while the Arabs are wrong. These are opinions. n nWhat I do have a problem with is (1) baseless smears and (2) denial of plain facts. An example of the first is what has happened to Chuck Hagel. Examples of the second include denying there is an Israel Lobby (common until a year or two ago), denying that it has destroyed careers, denying Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid, denying historical events such as the sinking of the U.S.S. Liberty, etc. n nI can have a rational discussion with someone who admits that Israel does some very bad things, without brushing them off as isolated occurrences, but who argues that these are necessary for its survival and to defeat a greater evil. Although I disagree, such a person is at least operating from a fundamentally factual basis. To he who would respond that I'm interfering in Israeli affairs by bringing up my concerns, I would reply again with that word… hypocrisy.
When fighting a war, everyone does "very bad things". So, yes, Israel is no exception. Israel has also done some very good things. Unilaterally leaving Gaza and Lebanon in the hope of improving the negitiating climate. Permitting self rule in the west Bank also. Offering peace plan after peace plan. But, when these actions do no good, I, for one, do not blame them for their present attitude, and I would say that one, like you, who fails to acknowledge these "good things" is, in fact a hypocrite.
I do acknowledge those good things, although my acknowledgement is itself seldom acknowledged. When you are fending off absurd charges of anti-Semitism, it is sometimes hard to have a very nuanced discussion.
No one owes you an explanation or a "rational" debate into the right of Israel to exist even, heaven forbid, doing bad things. The ticket on that laundry ran out circa 1933.
Typical rants of a racist Israel Firster
yeah yeah yeah. Billy Patriot uses his new vocabulary words "racist" and "Israel Firster". Anti-Semite as eternal juvenile. n nToday I am a fountain pen. n nRacist! n n
Well, I would just encourage you to work on your little racism issue.
Expelling Jews from Gaza for the sole reason of their being Jews, destroying the homes they had lived in for decades, their businesses and their marriages, rendering them unemployed and homeless, destroying their communities and uprooting their kids from school, locking their possessions in unheated uncooled cargo containers to be destroyed by mold and condensation (and charging exorbitant fees every time they wanted to retrieve their own property) while making them endure a decade of 'temporary' homelessness, reducing employment opportunity for Gaza's Arabs, and, incidentally, depriving the IDF of its forward bases, eyes and ears, all for the sake of giving the Arabs a huge launching pad for rocket, mortar, rifle and kidnapping attacks against Israelis — that's a very good thing in your world? Ugh!
I feel the same way you do about Gaza. My point though was that it was an unfortunate altruistic gesture designed to gain confidence of the other side and to win over world opinion. Good in that sense only. The fact that it did neither leads me to conclude that not a single new unilateral action is warranted.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. If you have ever spoken with or listened to someone who was expelled in that useless and counterproductive gestrure, you know how awful the results were.
Bill Patriot calls advocates for Israel "Israel Firsters". He has called Commentary supporters of Israel traitors and he will inevitably circle back to that meme.
No, not all of these people are traitors or Israel Firsters, but you are both. n nSome Commentary Israel supporters agree with me. Others disagree with me, but are not intentionally trying to put Israel's interests above America's. And some are Israel First traitors, like best2003. These need to be relentlessly exposed, much like maggots in a dark corner.
You are not in a position to decide which Jews are Israel Firsters and which Jews are not and which Jews are traitors. n nBut thanks for the Hitler lexicon. Makes things a little plainer donnit. n nThe Jewish maggots Hitler described as the putrescence rotting under the Aryan culture are the feeble opinions rattling around in that shrunken pea pod you call a brain. Any Jewish opinions that don't meet the bar of your twelve-year old tweener sense of self-rectiude are labeled Israel Firster traitor racist etc. Because you are a) an anti-Semite and b) a little Lord Faunterloy who is unable to state a belief without continual self-reference that it is he, the mighty Billy Patriot who has that belief. "me me me me me". n nAt least Hitler was an arrested adolescent. n nYou should be so lucky. n nToday I am a fountain pen. n nWhat a maroon.
I'm really sorry. I was taunting you and making fun of you but now I realize I was wrong. This is actually tragic. You are retarded.
When Islams advocate for Islam you call it democracy when Jews and Christians and the whole frigging Congress support Israel you deny it is democracy but stand on your hind legs and lecture us about a Lobby. The Arab countries cumulatively get about 2.5 times. n nYou have a problem. Little Bill Patriot has a problem. Jews are not here child to argue our existence with you or come up with defenses for our advocacy of Israel or the existence of Israel for every pupik who puts Israel and us o the dock. n nYou insufferable prig.
The hysterical pontifications of an Israel Firster are always amusing to read, briefly at least. In youth, they trumpet their treason and racism openly, as young Best2003 does. Later, they learn to tone it down in the interest of smoother results. n nBy the way, can you remind me why you can't even seem to convince half the Jewish people of the righteousness of your views, let alone everyone else? n nIs it the self-hating thing? Refresh my memory.
Youth? You are a child. You are an anti-Semite. You call Jews you disagree with traitors. That racist thing is the whipped cream you throw in because your teachers told you that was a bad thing. And because you believe that Judaism, of course, is inherently racist. n nYou are calling for the execution of Jews you disagree with. n nEnd of story. n n"Smoother results"–the manipulative Jew. n nGo to Israel child and play this game with the Israelis you detest. n nStart with any bar chosen randomly in Tel Aviv. n n
I actually wish all Israel Firsters were like you. You expose your own treason so openly, it makes my job a lot easier. All I really have to do is sit here.
STFU
STFU5
Naomi, n nYou couldn't have said it better. When it comes to security issues Obama should be the last one to point fingers. His administration's handling of Benghazi is deplorable.
well, you may give raphaelennis credti for not calling you an anti-semite, but I will do that. For you, to continue propagating the canard of israeli dastardliness in the case of the USS Liberty (a tragic mistake) and propagating the lie that israel is the largest recipient of foreign aid, when the bulk of this aid is military and is actually a loan, puts you in the same corner as other anti-semites. nYou will have to show me why they are "baseless smears" in the case of hagel , as his remarks have been amply documented. You merrily continue smearing other American citizens (the Israel lobby…) so I'd like you hear smear the same China lobby or the Arab lobby (a lot richer and more powrful), or the oil lobby,etc…. -speaking of hypocrisy!)
You are clearly racist against black people, since you oppose every action of Obama and align yourself with those who say he is a Muslim, born in Kenya, etc. etc. In addition of course to your position as an Israel Firster.
Touche. I appreciate your irony. I do not agree that you should be slandered as an anti-semite on the basis of what you write. After all, 2/3 of American Jews agree with you. Charges of racism and anti-semitism serve no purpose except to end discussion. In that they are very useful. You say you have acknowledged the good things that Israel has done to advance peace. Then, perhaps you can tell me what you think Israel can do constructively to advance it further now that Hamas is in control in Gaza, (following Isreal's unilateral action ther), Hezbollah is in control in southern Lebanon (following Israel's unilateral action there) and, in fact on the West Bank (now that Arafat and Abbas have rejected multiple peace proposals without offering a counter proposal).
I basically support anything Israel might do that counts as legitimate military defense, even if it is harsh, even if it is punitive, and even if a few stray war crimes are committed. Even an occupation may count as legitimate military defense, depending on many factors. Personally I have no fundamental problem with the current Gaza policy — assuming its methods and goals are actually those claimed by the Israeli government (which I'm not terribly inclined to trust these days.) n nSettlements are not legitimate military defense. I hope everyone can finally get their heads around that point without further discussion being necessary. That is my No. 1 and in some ways my only real beef — settlements. n nAs far as borders: if Israel cannot agree with the Palestinians on borders, then Israel should devise its own, fair border plan with the consultation of the international community — then impose it by force. But a fair plan. n nPersonally I think that if Israel had consistently followed my ideas starting 20 years ago, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. For many years I advised building a Maginot-type line around the entirety of Israel, and was laughed at — until it was actually done and it stopped the suicide bombings. n nIn my opinion, the road ahead will be much harder now than if Israelis had taken my advice 15 years ago. Each passing year makes things harder. Not only does the physical situation change but the international community's suspicion of the Israeli government grows, making cooperation more difficult. The Iran thing is a wild card that perhaps never would have arisen if Israel had simply solved its problems years ago. Others may disagree, but be that as it may, it is a military matter. The fundamental principles that I advocate don't change. n nIf Israel does everything I suggest, will the critics and protesters go away? No. But the reasonable ones will, and then Israel will have won the PR war as well as the physical one. Israel did not lose the PR war when it lost the peaceniks, hippies and skinheads. It lost the PR war when it lost the reasonable people, like me.
settlements are not there for military or defensive purposed. They are there because the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people and the Palestinians have rejected any sensible accomodation to get their own country. ntaking your advice on anything is akin to listening to a quack doctor telling us we can cure a stomach ache by taking arsenic.
It sounds like you're one of the same types of people who jeered when I said Israel should build a wall around itself. Right?
actually no. I thought it was a sensible way to try to stop terrorist attacks. I am sure it has not evaded you that the world keeps on saying that this wall is illegal and that it should be torn down, with new terrorist attacks as routine, presumably.
With respect, I do not agree with a word you have written, except that you believe that Israel was right in building the defensive wall. As far a settlements are concerned, You may or not know that at the conclusion of the War of Independence, not a single Jew was left alive in Jordan controlled west bank. Jewish presence was there from time immemorial including Hebron among other locales. Using your logic, why should Israel not israel expel every Arab? n nNevertheless, thanks for your views. You are definitely OK in my book, despite our disagreement.
Thank you. Same to you.
"even if a few stray war crimes are committed"–yeah, your personal Billy Patriot seal of approval. Thanks loads. Fifteen years ago you were in day care.
your remarks would be laughed at and dismissed out of hand if they weren't nso dangerous. Racist? Can you tell me which other country has absorbed and assimilated more blacks thatn israel? (Ethiopian jews) . When did I ever say anything about Obama's birth or faith? I oppose most of his actions because they are driving The US to bankruptcy and irrelevancy.
It doesn't matter; I don't need to prove my accusation, just as you do not and certainly have not. As you obviously know, it is enough to launch it. (PS: As your latest comments on the settlements prove, and they really speak for themselves, you are racist against Palestinians as well.)
racist against palestinians? again, where do you see this? Saying that israel is the land of the Jews has a lot more credibility and basis that saying that the United States belongs to the Puritans, or the colonists of the West, or the brahmins of Boston. There are some wretched descendants of the original settlers, the native Indians, who would scron your ideas.
the man calls supporters of Israel Israel Firsters. why argue? but hey go for it.
STFU3
STFU2–more Israel Firster ant-Semitic juvenilia. Winter break at high school not over yet.
Responding to trolls, especially Jew-haters trolling Jewish websites, is a waste of time. Note that Billy the Patriot hides his own ethnics even as he insults Jews. Note also how easily he jumps from accusations of disloyalty to charges of racism. The man is a bigot and not a very bright. n nIt is not patriotic to slash the defense budget, expose the nation to its enemies and reduce America's power and prestige in the world. It is not patriotic to circumvent the Congress and the American Constitution by executive fiat. It is not patriotic to rape the American treasury without a care for future generations of Americans who will have to pay the price. n nWith apologies to good and decent Catholics of the WFB stripe, charges of dual loyalty against American Jews are heard mainly from Roman Catholics. Patric Buchanan, Zbigniew Brzinsky, and Fathers Coughlin and Freeney come immediately to mind. n n It is worth remembering that the loyalty of American Catholics was once far more powerfully questioned than that of Jews is today. Charges of Papism and Popery were once entirely common. As a matter of historical fact, Roman Catholics–especially Irish Catholics–in large number, sided overtly and covertly with America's enemies in three of our bloodiest and costliest wars. n nA Roman Catholic accusing a Jew of dual loyalty is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. n
Let me get this straight. You are an open Roman Catholic-hater who wants everyone posting on this site to disclose their ethnicity? n nWOW.
Sounds like I pegged you.
STFU4
thats the deal–seeming reasonableness for five minutes and then the anti-Semitic tourettes takes over and its back to Israel Firster and defend your right to breath. Jews do not owe explanations as to why we are here, why we are still Jews, why we support Israel, why we do or don't call ourselves "the Chosen People" (memo to The Boss: Chosen for What? again, yeah yeah yeah holiness, we remember)
Israel Firster is simply a description of what you are. Sounds like I really touched a nerve. And a racist as well. What a shame.
Go to hell. n nFor sure, anti-Semites call Jews traitors and when the Jews gently demur, they go "oh my looks like we touched a nerve." Well, yeah, you are calling us traitors. Color us crazy but that's just not polite! Plus you genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Really, your knowledge of Judaism, Israel, and the Middle East conflicts could be inserted into a thimble and it would rattle around like a marble in a Boeing hangar. n nBut then you are too clueless to realize how clueless you are. Weaned on self-esteem classes grasp on the subject matter at hand is considered totally non-essential becausel, gosh darn it, Billy Patriot has opinions! n n"What a shame" Homeroom President and candidate for the sock prom king reacts more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger. Racist!
Remind me about the self-hating thing again?