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	<title>Comments on: The Other &#8220;Other&#8221; Israel</title>
	<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602</link>
	<description>The blog of Commentary Magazine.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 06:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Shalom Freedman</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-103326</link>
		<dc:creator>Shalom Freedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-103326</guid>
		<description>If as this article contends there is a vast gap between the stance of the Arab political leadership( openly hostile to the state, and often treasonous) and its constituency then it would seem natural that an 'alternative leadership' might emerge. But it hasn't. 
One possible interpretation here then is that the consent to national service is in fact a pragmatic, economic consideration. For after all most Arabs in Israel including those in Jerusalem would prefer for economic and social benefit reasons to remain a part of Israel. i.e. Political extremism and anti- state attitudes might very well coexist with economic and social pragmatism. 
And here I would point to the recent political statements of Arabs in Israel calling not for the destruction of the Jewish state from without- but rather for the kind of transformation from within which would lead to the end of the Jewish state. 
So while this news of young Arab Israeli (Who are Palestinians in their own feeling) might seem some reason for encouragement- I wouldn't exactly go dancing in the streets about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If as this article contends there is a vast gap between the stance of the Arab political leadership( openly hostile to the state, and often treasonous) and its constituency then it would seem natural that an &#8216;alternative leadership&#8217; might emerge. But it hasn&#8217;t.<br />
One possible interpretation here then is that the consent to national service is in fact a pragmatic, economic consideration. For after all most Arabs in Israel including those in Jerusalem would prefer for economic and social benefit reasons to remain a part of Israel. i.e. Political extremism and anti- state attitudes might very well coexist with economic and social pragmatism.<br />
And here I would point to the recent political statements of Arabs in Israel calling not for the destruction of the Jewish state from without- but rather for the kind of transformation from within which would lead to the end of the Jewish state.<br />
So while this news of young Arab Israeli (Who are Palestinians in their own feeling) might seem some reason for encouragement- I wouldn&#8217;t exactly go dancing in the streets about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Doubi Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102570</link>
		<dc:creator>Doubi Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102570</guid>
		<description>A suggested Reading : Injustice and Folly: On the Proposals to Cede Arab Localities from Israel to Palestine.

Proposals to cede Arab localities from Israeli to
Palestinian sovereignty, presented as "populated land
exchanges", involve forcibly revoking the citizenship
of tens of thousands of Arabs. Since the October 2000 events
these proposals penetrated the heart of public discourse.
The Arab leadership and public vehemently oppose these
proposals. This study examines the Jewish discourse
supporting the idea alongside Arab opposition to it in
Israel and the territories as well as its implications on
the character of the State of Israel. It examines Israeli
and international legal perspectives and demographic and
territorial implications. The study emphasizes the danger
and folly of this idea and recommends discussing the idea as
part of the Arab-Jewish discourse and as part of the status
of the Arab minority in a democratic Jewish state.

The full publication is free on the net (see link) in Hebrew, Arabic, English and Russian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A suggested Reading : Injustice and Folly: On the Proposals to Cede Arab Localities from Israel to Palestine.</p>
<p>Proposals to cede Arab localities from Israeli to<br />
Palestinian sovereignty, presented as &#8220;populated land<br />
exchanges&#8221;, involve forcibly revoking the citizenship<br />
of tens of thousands of Arabs. Since the October 2000 events<br />
these proposals penetrated the heart of public discourse.<br />
The Arab leadership and public vehemently oppose these<br />
proposals. This study examines the Jewish discourse<br />
supporting the idea alongside Arab opposition to it in<br />
Israel and the territories as well as its implications on<br />
the character of the State of Israel. It examines Israeli<br />
and international legal perspectives and demographic and<br />
territorial implications. The study emphasizes the danger<br />
and folly of this idea and recommends discussing the idea as<br />
part of the Arab-Jewish discourse and as part of the status<br />
of the Arab minority in a democratic Jewish state.</p>
<p>The full publication is free on the net (see link) in Hebrew, Arabic, English and Russian.</p>
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		<title>By: Marchia</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102402</link>
		<dc:creator>Marchia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102402</guid>
		<description>This article is a bit misleading. Arabs have been in the IDF for some time. In fact, the Bedouin are generally recognized in Israel as superb trackers. When I was driving around Israel as a tourist, almost 25 years ago, I dutifully stopped for Army hitchhikers, as encouraged by road signs and public service announcements. To my amazement, both of them on one particular trip, were Arab. And let's not forget the terrorist bombing a few years ago of an Eilat checkpoint, where all the victims were Arab Israeli soldiers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is a bit misleading. Arabs have been in the IDF for some time. In fact, the Bedouin are generally recognized in Israel as superb trackers. When I was driving around Israel as a tourist, almost 25 years ago, I dutifully stopped for Army hitchhikers, as encouraged by road signs and public service announcements. To my amazement, both of them on one particular trip, were Arab. And let&#8217;s not forget the terrorist bombing a few years ago of an Eilat checkpoint, where all the victims were Arab Israeli soldiers.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102332</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102332</guid>
		<description>Imagine the future politicians and public servants that will come out of a corp of Isreli Arab youth schooled in public service and commitment to Isreal. Not to mention actually having to work along side Ultra-orthodox Jews.  It will be a stunning example to Arab populations throughout the Mideast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Imagine the future politicians and public servants that will come out of a corp of Isreli Arab youth schooled in public service and commitment to Isreal. Not to mention actually having to work along side Ultra-orthodox Jews.  It will be a stunning example to Arab populations throughout the Mideast.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian H</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102300</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102300</guid>
		<description>At really close quarters the contrast between actual competent democracy and sham incompetent democracy is just too obvious to overlook, I guess!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At really close quarters the contrast between actual competent democracy and sham incompetent democracy is just too obvious to overlook, I guess!</p>
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		<title>By: Jan from Amherst, MA</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102289</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan from Amherst, MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102289</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2534" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2534&lt;/a&gt;

...."The Galilee Triangle. Nor are such pro-Israeli sentiments limited to residents of Jerusalem. When Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's government released a trial balloon in February 2004 about giving the Palestinian Authority control over the Galilee Triangle, a predominantly Arab part of Israel, the response came strong and hard. As Mahmoud Mahajnah, 25, told Agence France-Presse, "Yasir Arafat runs a dictatorship, not a democracy. No one here would accept to live under that regime. I've done my [Israeli] national service; I am a student here and a member of the Israeli Football Association. Why would they transfer me? Is that logical or legitimate?" One resident quoted what he called a local saying, that "the ‘evil' of Israel is better than the ‘heaven' of the West Bank." Shu‘a Sa‘d, 22, explained why: "Here you can say whatever you like and do whatever you want—so long as you don't touch the security of Israel. Over there, if you talk about Arafat, they can arrest you and beat you up." Another young man, ‘Isam Abu ‘Alu, 29, put it differently: "Mr. Sharon seems to want us to join an unknown state that doesn't have a parliament, or a democracy, or even decent universities. We have close family ties in the West Bank, but we prefer to demand our full rights inside Israel."

The entrance to Umm al-Fahm, the largest Muslim town in Israel, sports the green flags of the Islamic Movement Party that rules the town, along with a billboard denouncing Israel's rule over Jerusalem. That said, Hashim ‘Abd ar-Rahman, mayor and local leader of the Islamic Movement, has no time for Sharon's suggestion: "Despite the discrimination and injustice faced by Arab citizens, the democracy and justice in Israel is better than the democracy and justice in Arab and Islamic countries." Nor does Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab member of parliament and advisor to Arafat, care for the idea of PA control, which he calls "a dangerous, antidemocratic suggestion."....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2534" rel="nofollow">http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2534</a></p>
<p>&#8230;.&#8221;The Galilee Triangle. Nor are such pro-Israeli sentiments limited to residents of Jerusalem. When Prime Minister Ariel Sharon&#8217;s government released a trial balloon in February 2004 about giving the Palestinian Authority control over the Galilee Triangle, a predominantly Arab part of Israel, the response came strong and hard. As Mahmoud Mahajnah, 25, told Agence France-Presse, &#8220;Yasir Arafat runs a dictatorship, not a democracy. No one here would accept to live under that regime. I&#8217;ve done my [Israeli] national service; I am a student here and a member of the Israeli Football Association. Why would they transfer me? Is that logical or legitimate?&#8221; One resident quoted what he called a local saying, that &#8220;the ‘evil&#8217; of Israel is better than the ‘heaven&#8217; of the West Bank.&#8221; Shu‘a Sa‘d, 22, explained why: &#8220;Here you can say whatever you like and do whatever you want—so long as you don&#8217;t touch the security of Israel. Over there, if you talk about Arafat, they can arrest you and beat you up.&#8221; Another young man, ‘Isam Abu ‘Alu, 29, put it differently: &#8220;Mr. Sharon seems to want us to join an unknown state that doesn&#8217;t have a parliament, or a democracy, or even decent universities. We have close family ties in the West Bank, but we prefer to demand our full rights inside Israel.&#8221;</p>
<p>The entrance to Umm al-Fahm, the largest Muslim town in Israel, sports the green flags of the Islamic Movement Party that rules the town, along with a billboard denouncing Israel&#8217;s rule over Jerusalem. That said, Hashim ‘Abd ar-Rahman, mayor and local leader of the Islamic Movement, has no time for Sharon&#8217;s suggestion: &#8220;Despite the discrimination and injustice faced by Arab citizens, the democracy and justice in Israel is better than the democracy and justice in Arab and Islamic countries.&#8221; Nor does Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab member of parliament and advisor to Arafat, care for the idea of PA control, which he calls &#8220;a dangerous, antidemocratic suggestion.&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102272</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102272</guid>
		<description>"it suggests that, contrary to proper democratic functioning, there is something preventing more reasonable candidates from being fielded among the Israeli Arab community."

Perhaps it's the multi/splinter party approach.  Israeli Arabs who see themselves as Israeli first will vote more often for a more-mainstream party whose focus is on national issues; the people who support Arab parties (and therefore the people who the party's candidates must satisfy) are the minority that consider themselves Arabs first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;it suggests that, contrary to proper democratic functioning, there is something preventing more reasonable candidates from being fielded among the Israeli Arab community.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s the multi/splinter party approach.  Israeli Arabs who see themselves as Israeli first will vote more often for a more-mainstream party whose focus is on national issues; the people who support Arab parties (and therefore the people who the party&#8217;s candidates must satisfy) are the minority that consider themselves Arabs first.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Halpern</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102255</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Halpern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102255</guid>
		<description>I meant Haredi ( a broader term,  I think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant Haredi ( a broader term,  I think).</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Halpern</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102245</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Halpern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/hazony/2602#comment-102245</guid>
		<description>Evidently they are as cynical about their politicians as the Jews are about theirs.  One wonders how much more moderate they (and their Hasidic counterparts) would be if Israel's Left  (and Right)  stopped tolerating chozzerai for the sake of political correctness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidently they are as cynical about their politicians as the Jews are about theirs.  One wonders how much more moderate they (and their Hasidic counterparts) would be if Israel&#8217;s Left  (and Right)  stopped tolerating chozzerai for the sake of political correctness.</p>
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