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	<title>Comments on: Pipes v. Gershman</title>
	<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503</link>
	<description>The blog of Commentary Magazine.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Robert Samuels</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-10596</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Samuels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-10596</guid>
		<description>Apparently Joshua Muravchik and Golnar Oyvessi (his minion at the AEI) find criticism of his membership in the Wahhabist think tank CSID so hilarious that they sent an article around titled “Is the American Enterprise Insititute going Islamist? The subject heading was “News Flash: Muravchik called an Islamist and more…" and explained why the mailing deviated from Muravchik's usual self promotion.
 
Dear All,
 
Usually I send you Josh's publications but this article about Josh, in which he is accused of being an Islamist, is so amusing that we decided to send it out just for fun! Enjoy: http://www.pipelinenews.org/index.cfm?page=aei61907.htm. 
 
 
 Ovyessi falsely claimed that Muravchik had been referred to an Islamist by the in the piece. In fact the authors criticised Muravchik and his AEI colleague Christina Hoff Sommers,  for supporting  Islamists and legitimizing the CSID by speaking at their conferences.
  
 
In an article yesterday titled “The Walter Duranty of Saudi Arabia”  subtitled “Commentary’s Clueness love letter to the Saudis” Stephen Sulayman Schwartz accused Muravchik of being a “useful idiot” based on his account of his trip to Saudi Arabia which he pretentiously titled “My Saudi Sojourn”. www.jewcy.com/feature/2007-06-25/the_walter_duranty_of_arabia 

Schwartz writes:
 
 “…Muravchik’s experiences seem to have left him in doubt as to whether Wahhabi Islam—the official Saudi creed that is the most extreme, radical, and violent form of Islam—exists at all. This is revealed in the first of his few references to radical Islam, where he informs us that “Not all Saudis are salafis, as Muslim puritans are known. (We often call them Wahhabis.)” Seldom has so much regime boilerplate been packed into a single sentence.
 
The Wahhabi media enterprise Al-Sahat used the occasion of his Commentary piece to attack Muravchik and reaffirm its hostility toward Israel and Zionism. 
 
Pity Commentary and Joshua Muravchik, both of whom must be pining for the 1930s. Back then, at least totalitarians flattered the useful idiots who serviced them.
 
Hopefully Golnar Oyvessi's next mailing from the  American Enterprise Institute think tank to her mentors list of subscribers will be more factually accurate then previous one and bear the subject line;
 
 “News Flash:Joshua Muravchik called a useful idiot and more...”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently Joshua Muravchik and Golnar Oyvessi (his minion at the AEI) find criticism of his membership in the Wahhabist think tank CSID so hilarious that they sent an article around titled “Is the American Enterprise Insititute going Islamist? The subject heading was “News Flash: Muravchik called an Islamist and more…&#8221; and explained why the mailing deviated from Muravchik&#8217;s usual self promotion.</p>
<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>Usually I send you Josh&#8217;s publications but this article about Josh, in which he is accused of being an Islamist, is so amusing that we decided to send it out just for fun! Enjoy: <a href="http://www.pipelinenews.org/index.cfm?page=aei61907.htm." rel="nofollow">http://www.pipelinenews.org/index.cfm?page=aei61907.htm.</a> </p>
<p> Ovyessi falsely claimed that Muravchik had been referred to an Islamist by the in the piece. In fact the authors criticised Muravchik and his AEI colleague Christina Hoff Sommers,  for supporting  Islamists and legitimizing the CSID by speaking at their conferences.</p>
<p>In an article yesterday titled “The Walter Duranty of Saudi Arabia”  subtitled “Commentary’s Clueness love letter to the Saudis” Stephen Sulayman Schwartz accused Muravchik of being a “useful idiot” based on his account of his trip to Saudi Arabia which he pretentiously titled “My Saudi Sojourn”. <a href="http://www.jewcy.com/feature/2007-06-25/the_walter_duranty_of_arabia" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewcy.com/feature/2007-06-25/the_walter_duranty_of_arabia</a> </p>
<p>Schwartz writes:</p>
<p> “…Muravchik’s experiences seem to have left him in doubt as to whether Wahhabi Islam—the official Saudi creed that is the most extreme, radical, and violent form of Islam—exists at all. This is revealed in the first of his few references to radical Islam, where he informs us that “Not all Saudis are salafis, as Muslim puritans are known. (We often call them Wahhabis.)” Seldom has so much regime boilerplate been packed into a single sentence.</p>
<p>The Wahhabi media enterprise Al-Sahat used the occasion of his Commentary piece to attack Muravchik and reaffirm its hostility toward Israel and Zionism. </p>
<p>Pity Commentary and Joshua Muravchik, both of whom must be pining for the 1930s. Back then, at least totalitarians flattered the useful idiots who serviced them.</p>
<p>Hopefully Golnar Oyvessi&#8217;s next mailing from the  American Enterprise Institute think tank to her mentors list of subscribers will be more factually accurate then previous one and bear the subject line;</p>
<p> “News Flash:Joshua Muravchik called a useful idiot and more&#8230;”</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wainright</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-8483</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wainright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-8483</guid>
		<description>According to Phillip including extremists in "the a big tent" like CSID means that one could "control" them to some degree instead of having them "run around unchecked". An online dictionary defines extremist as "One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics." This means that extremists by their very nature "have suspect ties and beliefs" and any organisation which allows them membership is implicitly condoning their agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Phillip including extremists in &#8220;the a big tent&#8221; like CSID means that one could &#8220;control&#8221; them to some degree instead of having them &#8220;run around unchecked&#8221;. An online dictionary defines extremist as &#8220;One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.&#8221; This means that extremists by their very nature &#8220;have suspect ties and beliefs&#8221; and any organisation which allows them membership is implicitly condoning their agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-8259</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 04:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-8259</guid>
		<description>This is a very important topic, I would love to see someone from Commentary tackle it in print.


What is the best way to deal with extremists? Do you try to include them in a big tent, legitimizing them to one degree or another; or you could say that this "controls" them to one degree or another instead of having them running around unchecked. Or do you exclude them, and also give those who run an organization the power to say "you can not be a member because you have suspect ties and beliefs", obviously a powerful and very political decision which in a way makes the organization look "extremist". 

I don't know which way I would come out, however there aren't very many organizations that appear to exclude people for such reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very important topic, I would love to see someone from Commentary tackle it in print.</p>
<p>What is the best way to deal with extremists? Do you try to include them in a big tent, legitimizing them to one degree or another; or you could say that this &#8220;controls&#8221; them to one degree or another instead of having them running around unchecked. Or do you exclude them, and also give those who run an organization the power to say &#8220;you can not be a member because you have suspect ties and beliefs&#8221;, obviously a powerful and very political decision which in a way makes the organization look &#8220;extremist&#8221;. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know which way I would come out, however there aren&#8217;t very many organizations that appear to exclude people for such reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Beila Rabinowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-8145</link>
		<dc:creator>Beila Rabinowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 23:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/muravchik/503#comment-8145</guid>
		<description>In his article on “Pipes v. Gershman” 6/6/07 Joshua Muravchik attempted to justify his and Carl Gershman’s collaboration with the  Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy and wrote that “I don’t like Pipes’s take on the CSID or his criticism of [Carl] Gershman for his involvement with it. I myself am a member of the CSID and spoke at it’s 2006 conference”. He also described  the CSID event as an “interesting mix”of  “Islamists and Islamist sympathisizers who called themselves democrats”adding that “the CSID put the likes of me on the program”.What Muravchik sees as an “interesting mix” entails the  granting of legitimacy to radicals, by putting them on equal footing with “democrats” and “the likes” of him and Mr.Gershman . http://www.commentarymagazine.com/contentions/index.php/muravchik/503 
  In  2004 Dr.Pipes debunked the attempts of the  of the CSID  to maintain a moderate façade  when the USIP (where he sat on the board) planned a meeting with the group prompting Dr.Pipes to write two articles decrying their decision to host the organisation on the grounds that most of their members were radical Islamists. He focused on the presence of CSID fellow Kamran Bokhari , the spokesman for Al Muhajiroun in North America, as an example of their radical Islamist agenda.( Bokhari was a speaker at the conference which also featured Carl Gershman).

CSID board member Taher  Jaber al -Alwani  was named on the Operation Greenquest indictment and in the court papers in the case of Sami Al Arian and his associates.
One of Muravchik's  fellow speakers at the  2006 conference was  Imad - Ad- Dean Ahmad  the head of the “Minaret of Freedom Institute”. In 2001  Ad  Dean Ahmad attended a terrorist summit  in Beirut together with representatives of Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. http://www.minaret.org/beirutconference.htm 

It is intellectually dishonest for Muravchik to attempt to justify his and Gershman's  involvement with an organisation whose members have documented ties to terrorism on the grounds that some of the participants are people "the likes" of them.  This claim grants legitimacy to the organisation and Islamists like Kamran Bokhari, Taher Jabar al -Alwani and  Imad -ad- Dean Ahmad who have also been welcomed into the CSID fold.


Muravchik concludes his piece by asking “What sense does it make to anathematize them (the CSID) as consorting with the enemy?”
 
Instead of blaming Dr.Pipes for exposing the CSID Joshua Muravchik and Carl Gershman would be better served asking themselves why they are aiding and abetting the enemy and betraying the values they claim to represent.


 
                                                                                                      Beila Rabinowitz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In his article on “Pipes v. Gershman” 6/6/07 Joshua Muravchik attempted to justify his and Carl Gershman’s collaboration with the  Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy and wrote that “I don’t like Pipes’s take on the CSID or his criticism of [Carl] Gershman for his involvement with it. I myself am a member of the CSID and spoke at it’s 2006 conference”. He also described  the CSID event as an “interesting mix”of  “Islamists and Islamist sympathisizers who called themselves democrats”adding that “the CSID put the likes of me on the program”.What Muravchik sees as an “interesting mix” entails the  granting of legitimacy to radicals, by putting them on equal footing with “democrats” and “the likes” of him and Mr.Gershman . <a href="http://www.commentarymagazine.com/contentions/index.php/muravchik/503" rel="nofollow">http://www.commentarymagazine.com/contentions/index.php/muravchik/503</a><br />
  In  2004 Dr.Pipes debunked the attempts of the  of the CSID  to maintain a moderate façade  when the USIP (where he sat on the board) planned a meeting with the group prompting Dr.Pipes to write two articles decrying their decision to host the organisation on the grounds that most of their members were radical Islamists. He focused on the presence of CSID fellow Kamran Bokhari , the spokesman for Al Muhajiroun in North America, as an example of their radical Islamist agenda.( Bokhari was a speaker at the conference which also featured Carl Gershman).</p>
<p>CSID board member Taher  Jaber al -Alwani  was named on the Operation Greenquest indictment and in the court papers in the case of Sami Al Arian and his associates.<br />
One of Muravchik&#8217;s  fellow speakers at the  2006 conference was  Imad - Ad- Dean Ahmad  the head of the “Minaret of Freedom Institute”. In 2001  Ad  Dean Ahmad attended a terrorist summit  in Beirut together with representatives of Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. <a href="http://www.minaret.org/beirutconference.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.minaret.org/beirutconference.htm</a> </p>
<p>It is intellectually dishonest for Muravchik to attempt to justify his and Gershman&#8217;s  involvement with an organisation whose members have documented ties to terrorism on the grounds that some of the participants are people &#8220;the likes&#8221; of them.  This claim grants legitimacy to the organisation and Islamists like Kamran Bokhari, Taher Jabar al -Alwani and  Imad -ad- Dean Ahmad who have also been welcomed into the CSID fold.</p>
<p>Muravchik concludes his piece by asking “What sense does it make to anathematize them (the CSID) as consorting with the enemy?”</p>
<p>Instead of blaming Dr.Pipes for exposing the CSID Joshua Muravchik and Carl Gershman would be better served asking themselves why they are aiding and abetting the enemy and betraying the values they claim to represent.</p>
<p>                                                                                                      Beila Rabinowitz</p>
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